Arkansas and Iowa (living in, moving, train)

[mofford]

Nice to see all the good comments about Iowa in this thread. I have lived here all my life and like it, perhaps because I'm used to it and have not been out of the state for more than 2 weeks at a time. I have to admit that Arkansas has more natural beauty, especially NW Arkansas. I was so jealous the other afternoon looking at the weather channel and seeing Little Rock having an 82 degree day, while it was 35 up here. If they would cover their state with paved bike trails like we do up here, I would have road tripped many a time to visit Arkansas.

Perhaps the social ways are a bit more reserved and stable in Iowa, but I have often wanted to snap up a building lot from Eric Estrada in Arkansas, or a cheap one in Horseshoe Bend to have a little getaway cabin down there. There's something just a tad "Big Brother" in Iowa that I can't quite put my finger on, kind of a "Baby this is a cold hotel" feeling you get in the winter time that makes you want to get away for a short spell. I think NW Arkansas would be nice, but have heard the SE part of the state is crime ridden, with Pine Bluff being a rough town that I would never want my escape pod to land in.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

Eh don't let them color your idea of the north.

I'm originally from upstate New York. I can tell you there are just as many toothless hillbillies in the rural northeast (I'm related to 'em) as there are in Arkansas.

They just aren't the loud ones.

Also I've never based a state on stereotypes. In fact I've never had anything against the south.

I'm not happy in Louisiana because of what some people did to me here. Otherwise it's all good.

Oh, I'd never think that about you CookieSkoon; you're good people. I think you'd fit in great with the Okies/Arkies.

I lived in the Northeast for a time and met a ton of good folks. Lots a friends still up that way.

[Thomas R.]

I'm originally from Northwest Arkansas and still have family there. I kind of consider myself connected to the place despite leaving with my parents at age 5. I've heard Iowa is pleasant though and the Western part of it is more conservative from what I can tell. (Unlike most here I'm conservative, or at least traditional and skeptical of radical change, and uninterested in living in big cities)

Still that background means I'd likely be biased. Although I have to admit some negative, or intended as negative, things people say about Arkansas aren't entirely untrue.

*Conservative/Religious - This is largely true, particularly if by "conservative" we don't mean "Republican." I think there's plenty of Blue-Dog "Socially-Conservative/Anti-Rich" Democrats in Arkansas. Anyway in a Gallup poll from a few years ago Arkansas had about the highest percentage believing the Bible is literally true. In 2008 Arkansas voted in a measure that forbids gay couples to adopt and the measure won in about every Arkansas county. (The counties that contain Fayetteville and Little Rock being the exceptions)

County Results - Election Center 2008 - Elections & Politics from CNN.com

I know personally that in the 1970s small town public schools essentially had "revivals" and that teachers responded to Catholic students, my siblings, with pretty harsh questioning about their religion.

However, it's not universal. Eureka Springs and Fayetteville are more liberal with both having some highly liberal people. Also some Arkansas people are rather independent or against "meddling" with others so won't bother you if you don't bother them.

*"Racist" - For a recent reason this comes up Arkansas was one of the states that supported Kerry more than they did Obama. This kind of adds to the idea that Arkansas is "racist" as they were less interested in a more successful, and ideologically similar, candidate who was black. And to be honest I think this is not entirely untrue. A fair amount of Arkansawyers over 60, maybe even over 50, are kind of racist. As older people vote a good deal it could have been a factor.

Also because of the state's history/demographics it's not as much the snooty genteel racism. Arkansas isn't Virginia or whatever, many Arkansas natives will very much tell you exactly what they think if the situation warrants it. So I know of stories in my Dad's family history where they made it clear they didn't like Vietnamese, disapproved of marrying Hawaiians, and used the "n-word" as basically the default word for black people. To the point that they didn't always see their use of it as hostile. (Although I think it was. As a kid I didn't know what the word meant, but the way they used it I thought they were describing a kind of roach or other insect pest. To me that indicates it wasn't a neutral term as I wouldn't have been putting "baggage" to it then)

However in the Midwest I find racism almost more common among the young and sometimes a good deal more violent. Older whites there wanted to be separate from blacks, but whites I've known up here are more likely to "joke" about various acts of violence to other races. So I don't know if they are more racist or if they are I think it's more uneducated senior citizens. The South has some tendency to want to move away from that past, the North has some tendency to deny it ever had a problem.

[sherrenee]

Originally Posted by Thomas R.

I'm originally from Northwest Arkansas and still have family there. I kind of consider myself connected to the place despite leaving with my parents at age 5. I've heard Iowa is pleasant though and the Western part of it is more conservative from what I can tell. (Unlike most here I'm conservative, or at least traditional and skeptical of radical change, and uninterested in living in big cities)

Still that background means I'd likely be biased. Although I have to admit some negative, or intended as negative, things people say about Arkansas aren't entirely untrue.

*Conservative/Religious - This is largely true, particularly if by "conservative" we don't mean "Republican." I think there's plenty of Blue-Dog "Socially-Conservative/Anti-Rich" Democrats in Arkansas. Anyway in a Gallup poll from a few years ago Arkansas had about the highest percentage believing the Bible is literally true. In 2008 Arkansas voted in a measure that forbids gay couples to adopt and the measure won in about every Arkansas county. (The counties that contain Fayetteville and Little Rock being the exceptions)

County Results - Election Center 2008 - Elections & Politics from CNN.com

I know personally that in the 1970s small town public schools essentially had "revivals" and that teachers responded to Catholic students, my siblings, with pretty harsh questioning about their religion.

However, it's not universal. Eureka Springs and Fayetteville are more liberal with both having some highly liberal people. Also some Arkansas people are rather independent or against "meddling" with others so won't bother you if you don't bother them.

*"Racist" - For a recent reason this comes up Arkansas was one of the states that supported Kerry more than they did Obama. This kind of adds to the idea that Arkansas is "racist" as they were less interested in a more successful, and ideologically similar, candidate who was black. And to be honest I think this is not entirely untrue. A fair amount of Arkansawyers over 60, maybe even over 50, are kind of racist. As older people vote a good deal it could have been a factor.

Also because of the state's history/demographics it's not as much the snooty genteel racism. Arkansas isn't Virginia or whatever, many Arkansas natives will very much tell you exactly what they think if the situation warrants it. So I know of stories in my Dad's family history where they made it clear they didn't like Vietnamese, disapproved of marrying Hawaiians, and used the "n-word" as basically the default word for black people. To the point that they didn't always see their use of it as hostile. (Although I think it was. As a kid I didn't know what the word meant, but the way they used it I thought they were describing a kind of roach or other insect pest. To me that indicates it wasn't a neutral term as I wouldn't have been putting "baggage" to it then)

However in the Midwest I find racism almost more common among the young and sometimes a good deal more violent. Older whites there wanted to be separate from blacks, but whites I've known up here are more likely to "joke" about various acts of violence to other races. So I don't know if they are more racist or if they are I think it's more uneducated senior citizens. The South has some tendency to want to move away from that past, the North has some tendency to deny it ever had a problem.

A lot people fail to take into consideration that Arkansas does have a lot of "country" people. This is not necessarily a bad thing if people would get away from their own prejudices they might meet some really awesome people and learn a thing or two.

I have spent my whole life around "country" people (my parents and much of my family is this way) and am glad for it. They have taught me things that I simply could not learn any other way. These people are not the uneducated babbling fools some try to make them out to be (some of the older ones may not have a lot of formal education (but some do...surprise surprise) but they have life education which counts far more than any amount of "book smarts"). Yeah they might meet some questionable people along the way but again that is not exclusive to just Arkansas those people can be find in every state/country.

[Thomas R.]

Yeah. My rural Arkansas relatives I think have more higher degrees, per-capita anyway, than my Northern relatives. So the education levels do vary. Of course I do have rural Arkansas relations who are quite "backward" and uneducated. Although you can find backward/uneducated people all kinds of places and being uneducated isn't the same as being "bad" or something. Some of them value education, but just didn't have the opportunities for it and feel it's a bit "too late." Some of the ones who are even hostile to colleges value education of the "self-taught" kind.

I have a weird mixture of feelings about my *fatherland. On the one hand I could not grow up there as it was in the early 1980s. The only school that was handicapped accessible, in that area, was for the mentally disabled and that wouldn't give me the education I needed. (Going by one measure I'm almost MENSA material, though that sounds braggy) And then at least it was quite Anti-Catholic. On the other hand the land in Northwest Arkansas is so lovely and the people I know there at least seem more sincere/genuine.

This is why the things about the "falseness" of Southerners mentally goes in my "But they don't mean the place I'm from" file because the Arkansas people I know may call people "Sir" and "Ma'am" but they're really pretty direct. The ones I knew were anyway. If they didn't like you or your religion or your race they let you know. If they did like you they let you know that too. It could be painful, my Dad's folks were clear they didn't like him marrying a Catholic raised on welfare, but it's in some ways easier. The Midwesterners I know seem more likely to be complicated in a way that at times makes it harder to know where I stand with them.

*I don't know if this is so, but I read of an African people who referred to their father's village as "fatherland" and mother's village as "motherland." It made sense to me, so I'll try it this once.

[601halfdozen0theother]

I sure had a terrible experience living in Arkansas, and would never recommend that anyone actually LIVE there, but I thought I'd take a Sunday morning moment and write about some good experiences I had in the state:

I had one of the best vacations ever at the Ozark Folk Center in Mountain View. GREAT gospel music, nice clean cabins, fun historic village. It's an easy drive from Memphis, so can make a nice stop on a vacation to that area.

Old Washington (down near Hope) is a wonderful, unique historic place. When I went the dafodills were up, the Spring sky was clean and the air had that uniquely Southern quality of floral scented and on the verge of sultry. The buildings were interesting and well cared for, and the people were friendly and informative. Not too crowded, either.

I still remember an antique store I discovered driving up an obscure road north from Old Washington to Fort Smith. It was one of those fun funky ones with multiple rooms of really good stuff and cats and an old hound dog laying on top of the antiques.

In most places in Arkansas housing is very affordable.

The drive north between Fort Smith and Fayetteville is very hilly and pretty.

Driving down the Delta you can pick up some really good radio stations - not pre-programed stuff but good local blues.

I bought some of the best home made peppermint candy I've ever had at a small local grocery store in Texarkana.

Ummm - that's all I can think of!

[sherrenee]

Originally Posted by 601halfdozen0theother

I sure had a terrible experience living in Arkansas, and would never recommend that anyone actually LIVE there, but I thought I'd take a Sunday morning moment and write about some good experiences I had in the state:

I had one of the best vacations ever at the Ozark Folk Center in Mountain View. GREAT gospel music, nice clean cabins, fun historic village. It's an easy drive from Memphis, so can make a nice stop on a vacation to that area.

Old Washington (down near Hope) is a wonderful, unique historic place. When I went the dafodills were up, the Spring sky was clean and the air had that uniquely Southern quality of floral scented and on the verge of sultry. The buildings were interesting and well cared for, and the people were friendly and informative. Not too crowded, either.

I still remember an antique store I discovered driving up an obscure road north from Old Washington to Fort Smith. It was one of those fun funky ones with multiple rooms of really good stuff and cats and an old hound dog laying on top of the antiques.

In most places in Arkansas housing is very affordable.

The drive north between Fort Smith and Fayetteville is very hilly and pretty.

Driving down the Delta you can pick up some really good radio stations - not pre-programed stuff but good local blues.

I bought some of the best home made peppermint candy I've ever had at a small local grocery store in Texarkana.

Ummm - that's all I can think of!

If that is all you got from your travels here then you missed out on a lot of great people and scenery.

[sherrenee]

Originally Posted by Thomas R.

Yeah. My rural Arkansas relatives I think have more higher degrees, per-capita anyway, than my Northern relatives. So the education levels do vary. Of course I do have rural Arkansas relations who are quite "backward" and uneducated. Although you can find backward/uneducated people all kinds of places and being uneducated isn't the same as being "bad" or something. Some of them value education, but just didn't have the opportunities for it and feel it's a bit "too late." Some of the ones who are even hostile to colleges value education of the "self-taught" kind.

I have a weird mixture of feelings about my *fatherland. On the one hand I could not grow up there as it was in the early 1980s. The only school that was handicapped accessible, in that area, was for the mentally disabled and that wouldn't give me the education I needed. (Going by one measure I'm almost MENSA material, though that sounds braggy) And then at least it was quite Anti-Catholic. On the other hand the land in Northwest Arkansas is so lovely and the people I know there at least seem more sincere/genuine.

This is why the things about the "falseness" of Southerners mentally goes in my "But they don't mean the place I'm from" file because the Arkansas people I know may call people "Sir" and "Ma'am" but they're really pretty direct. The ones I knew were anyway. If they didn't like you or your religion or your race they let you know. If they did like you they let you know that too. It could be painful, my Dad's folks were clear they didn't like him marrying a Catholic raised on welfare, but it's in some ways easier. The Midwesterners I know seem more likely to be complicated in a way that at times makes it harder to know where I stand with them.

*I don't know if this is so, but I read of an African people who referred to their father's village as "fatherland" and mother's village as "motherland." It made sense to me, so I'll try it this once.

I will completely agree with you in regards to most native Arkansans not putting on airs, my family is very much the same way. If they do not like you they will let you know and most don't care about your race, education, religion etc (some do but most dont). They do care about your attitude toward them and how you come across. A lot of people would be able to meet some really great people in our state if they would get out of their own way.

[InLondon]

Originally Posted by Marce30

Neither. Too conservative for my taste.

Umm, you do realize that not everyone in these 2 states are the same right?

Also, the media paints their own picture of each state....

Also, go visit these places before judging....

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008

Oh, I'd never think that about you CookieSkoon; you're good people. I think you'd fit in great with the Okies/Arkies.

I lived in the Northeast for a time and met a ton of good folks. Lots a friends still up that way.

Mighty kind of ya!

I'm glad you have friends up there. It's a shame the nice folks from up north get so overshadowed by the richy snobs who can afford to come be a nuisance.

I always liked Arkansas. I've had people ask me why before and all I can tell them is that every state has it's drawbacks. You look at the positive side and hold that to what you personally want in life, and go from there.

Arkansas is quiet, generally friendly, and has some beautiful terrain. I like that.

Not that Iowa isn't, I'm sure it is. I was calling it too flat with a grain of humor. But If I moved to the Midwest I'd prefer southeast Ohio or the Michigan UP.