Best/Worst Places for Bullying (fit in, renting, attorney)
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I have two young kids who'll be starting school in the next few years. With all the school shootings that seemed to be triggered by bullying lately, bullying has been on my mind. I grew up in the Chicago suburbs, and really didn't have any problem with bullying, but I knew people who grew up in nearby suburbs who did have a big problem with bullying. So I'm curious, is bullying better or worse in certain parts of the country? How bad was bullying in your town? Were you personally bullied or did you witness a lot of other kids being bullied at your school?
On a related note, I suppose this could apply to the workplace too- do you see a lot of bullying where you currently work?
Please be sure to mention where these places are. I'm interested in finding a town that doesn't tolerate bullying.
My experience was in Schaumburg, IL. For me the bullying wasn't bad, and I didn't see a whole lot of other kids being bullied, although it did happen occasionally. What was your experience like- good or bad?
I tend to disagree with bullying a primary cause of the shootings. Kids that are bullied by those that get no respect from the desirable set of students (which happens a lot more than gets reported on) AND who have a strong sense of their own worth as instilled by their parents and other quirky peers are able to "consider the source" whereas kids that have a degree of alienation and detachment from any sort of social structure along with basic personality / violence issues are the real threat to safety.
The more responsible public schools understand the the sense of community that schools foster to deem some behavior "unacceptable" is far more important than having some mindless ban on nail clippers.
In my experience most modern workplaces that make a real committment to having some legitimate kind of program of integrity and values do not have problems with "bullying" whereas firms that are run by out of touch lunatics tend to be a nightmare.
So too can it be said for schools -- those districts that have clear poliicies on doing all they can to be open and responsible are pleasant places for students, parents and staff. Those that are controled by doctrinaire types intent on operating in secret end up creating at atmosphere of cliques and secret agendas.
I am biased toward areas that have a higher percentage of college educated professional parents because in my experience such areas tend to place an appropriate level of concern toward academics above athletics or social functions and the degree to which this may sound elitist is something that I really no defense for other than to say no other country has the kinds of problems regarding violence and lack of performance as does the US where far too many people seem altogether clueless of how their efforts to make schools into some story book place for thieir own purposes ends up being a huge negative factor...
I also am not shy about stating that it is my firm belief that in Illinois the levels of systemic corruption that are tolerated by too many people lead to a certain disregard for common deccency and fosters extreme behavior.
Frankly the results of these factors are yet another reasoon that I tend to recommend areas with a high degree of uniformity, while they may be boring to those seeking an exciting nightlife the orderliness tends to make it easier to spot the forces that can mess with one's kids staying on the right track unless one chooses to go out of their way to ignore the signs of trouble. In contrast the area that have that brightly shaded range of whatever it is that passes for hipness of youth it is too easy to say "well they look odd but they are good kids" while the reality may be that they are not merely imitating the dress of earler generations but also on a path that is unlikely to end up in the appealing cul de sac of success that rock stars, actors and professional atheletes seem to make appear easy. The odds of some inked up guy or gal ending up as the next Oscar presenter or Grammy winner vs an addict in some deplorable crystal meth flop is not something that people give enough thought to when they let their pre-teens bring homes clothes in bags from stores that a decade or two ago would only be acceptable for porn stars...
The north west metro of the Twin Cities where many victims of bullies have unfortunately taken things to the extreme.
This area is very different compared to the rest of the Twin Cities (it is Bachman territory that probably why) the area is really religious, blue color and conservative.
However just down in Southwest Minneapolis the schools are very liberal, everyone is welcoming and the schools are phenomenal, very diverse from people of different race and sexual orientation and the students all get along
I would recommend looking at areas with a liberal population base with parents that are involved in the education process. It's not a fail-safe method but I know from experience such school districts have low or zero tolerance for bullying. In the Chicago area I would check out either Oak Park or Evanston. Good luck!
No offense, but it's an unrealistic goal to find someplace to live where you can avoid bullies, or even avoid the possibility of them.
The fact is, you could be in the most backwood area of the deep South, or in the middle of Manhattan, or in L.A. or Seattle, and there will still be bullies in every one of these places. I wouldn't be surprised if studies were to show that per capita, the numbers would even be close to each other regardless of the area/region you went to as well.
A bully is a product of a poor childhood environment and/or poor parenting - which happens unfortunately anywhere and everywhere. You might find facilities (schools, work places, etc) where it's tolerated less and there are more strict enforcements against bullying, but I think you'll find this is more of an individual thing some schools enforce, as opposed to whole areas where all of the schools in that area equally enforce it.
Kids can be cruel... no, not "can"... kids ARE cruel, and their skills at interaction with others tactfully are pretty much crap until they (hopefully) are taught differently. It's unfortunate that typically, bullying occurs the most when a kid stands out more from the crowd... being one of the only black kids in a majority white school (or vice versa)... being a gay kid in a school in the deep South.... being in a wheelchair.... being overweight where there are tons of skinny kids... etc etc... the list goes on. If you're "different than the norm", then you're much more likely to be bullied. Unless you size up your child and purposely move to an area where they will "fit in" with the majority of the kids in the local school, chance are fair they might experience some bully actions at some point. You say that you did not experience bullying yourself where you grew up, but I'd be willing to bet you didn't stand out in an odd way to the other kids, too. You most likely "blended in" very well. (right/wrong?).
Your best bet is to teach your kids to not act like a victim if they are bullied - they shouldn't fight, but they shouldn't act like the bully can hurt them psychologically, either. Bullies are like animals - when they sense weakness, it only makes them attack more. Your kids should be taught to immediately report the problem to an adult, whether it's them being bullied or someone else. THAT is what stops bullying... when all the other kids ban together to let the bully know they won't put up with it - and you can teach kids to do this in any area... not have to seek out the rare ones that exist randomly.
The unpleasantness that happens when you have VERY wide range between the extremes of wealth and poverty as is common in suburbs that border Chicago strike me as perhaps the most likely place for the differences to cause friction.
The idea that the "district policy" is somehow effective in preventing bullying is the same sort of failed thinking that cause those on the political left to believe that increasing regulation for firearms owners will reduce gun violence...
My experience is that children that are uniformly well cared for in their homes are least likely to either attempt to bully their peers OR least likely to be bothered by the "out group" bully-er.
In contrast the stringent political views of those that demonize the religious views of their neighbors and ridicule their neighbors choices of news outlet or political candidate are more likely to raise children with a low degree of tolerance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125
I would recommend looking at areas with a liberal population base with parents that are involved in the education process. It's not a fail-safe method but I know from experience such school districts have low or zero tolerance for bullying. In the Chicago area I would check out either Oak Park or Evanston. Good luck!
I agree with those that say that bullying is probably impossible to avoid, geographically speaking. You can find bullies in private schools with wealthy students, in public schools where most of the kids are poor, in cities, suburbs, and rural counties, and everything in between.
But look for a small school. There, any bullying behavior (as well as any good behavior) stands out to teachers very quickly, and can be addressed, as long as the student and parent bring it to their attention. Much easier to identify this in a school of 300 than a school of 3000.
I somewhat disgagree with the idea that bullied kids should not fight back. In my experience bullies do what they do as long as they can get away with it. Sometimes they're so surprised that the little guy fights back that they stop. One of my son's HS friends was the target of bullying and signed up for boxing lessons. Shortly therafter, the kid who had been torturing him pushed him around after school one afternoon and got a left hook that left him on the ground, stunned. End or problem. I don't think its nesccessarily good to encourage passivity and helplessness in the kids who are bullied. Kids who can respond will feel empowered and end up, I think, psyhcologically healthier.
And I realize that won't work in every case. Some bullies will escalate the situation and the consequences can be bad, so I do agree that responsible adults should be informed. But its never bad to teach a kid, especially a boy, how to physically defend himself anyway, whether its boxing in HS or martial arts like karate and judo when younger.
How different would that tragic case in Ohio yesterday have been if the tortured young man felt confident enough in his own strength and responses that he didnt have to bring a gun and kill his HS classmates. We'll never know, of course. But having a personal--and less than lethal--option to bullying might have helped.
In general I do think that larger schools make it a little easier for kids with issuses to "stay beneath the radar" of staff, though sadly there are too many teachers and adminstrators that have tried in large and small schools to get help for kids with issues and ending up being accussed of "labeling" someone's precious or worse... The decision of some parents to demonize (or bring lawsuits against...) those who seek to help their kids is a real threat to intervention.
The other troubling problem is that for some kids a little bit of basic self defending techniques (either physical or verbal) can easily be turned against the bullied kid and I have seen more than a few cases where the true aggressor has some lunatic parent (often an attorney or "public safety professional"...) that attempts to have assualt charges filed against the kid that was defending themself...
The Ohio incident seems to have uncovered some nasty issues at home, with the dad having a record of domestic violence, and that suggests that this bullied kid may have gotten the wrong message about how to deal with conflict. Failure to deal with problems in a rational, non-confrontational, non-violent manner is an issue that has broad implication...
Quote:
Originally Posted by citylove101
I agree with those that say that bullying is probably impossible to avoid, geographically speaking. You can find bullies in private schools with wealthy students, in public schools where most of the kids are poor, in cities, suburbs, and rural counties, and everything in between.
But look for a small school. There, any bullying behavior (as well as any good behavior) stands out to teachers very quickly, and can be addressed, as long as the student and parent bring it to their attention. Much easier to identify this in a school of 300 than a school of 3000.
I somewhat disgagree with the idea that bullied kids should not fight back. In my experience bullies do what they do as long as they can get away with it. Sometimes they're so surprised that the little guy fights back that they stop. One of my son's HS friends was the target of bullying and signed up for boxing lessons. Shortly therafter, the kid who had been torturing him pushed him around after school one afternoon and got a left hook that left him on the ground, stunned. End or problem. I don't think its nesccessarily good to encourage passivity and helplessness in the kids who are bullied. Kids who can respond will feel empowered and end up, I think, psyhcologically healthier.
And I realize that won't work in every case. Some bullies will escalate the situation and the consequences can be bad, so I do agree that responsible adults should be informed. But its never bad to teach a kid, especially a boy, how to physically defend himself anyway, whether its boxing in HS or martial arts like karate and judo when younger.
How different would that tragic case in Ohio yesterday have been if the tortured young man felt confident enough in his own strength and responses that he didnt have to bring a gun and kill his HS classmates. We'll never know, of course. But having a personal--and less than lethal--option to bullying might have helped.
In general I do think that larger schools make it a little easier for kids with issuses to "stay beneath the radar" of staff, though sadly there are too many teachers and adminstrators that have tried in large and small schools to get help for kids with issues and ending up being accussed of "labeling" someone's precious or worse... The decision of some parents to demonize (or bring lawsuits against...) those who seek to help their kids is a real threat to intervention.
The other troubling problem is that for some kids a little bit of basic self defending techniques (either physical or verbal) can easily be turned against the bullied kid and I have seen more than a few cases where the true aggressor has some lunatic parent (often an attorney or "public safety professional"...) that attempts to have assualt charges filed against the kid that was defending themself...
The Ohio incident seems to have uncovered some nasty issues at home, with the dad having a record of domestic violence, and that suggests that this bullied kid may have gotten the wrong message about how to deal with conflict. Failure to deal with problems in a rational, non-confrontational, non-violent manner is an issue that has broad implication...
Crazy parents -- and I suspect we've all met more than we want -- can definitely make any response to bullying on the part of the school more difficult. No doubt about that. Unless you know the bully's parents personally, parental response will always be a wild card you can't predict in these situations.
But I put the emphasis here on the kid. Will he/she be better off having some way to respond to bullying, whatever the response of the other kid or any of the parents? I suspect that there is still more to be gained for the kid by figuring out some reponse -- even if its just knocking the other sucker out -- than by feeling helpless and powerless. The value in ending the feelings of despair, which I have witnessed in bullied kids, seem to me to outweigh the issues that can come with problematic parents.
Like I say, a response (verbal or physical) won't disarm the attacker every time. Many times responsible adults do need to be brought into the picture. But even when that's the case, a kid who can stick up for himself will likely do better in the long haul than one who feels he never can.
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Probably some of the worst choices...
