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Old 04-07-2012, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,799,283 times
Reputation: 1025

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahahonors View Post
I've been to Oklahoma and Texas. And they (North Texas and Oklahoma) are, in fact, very similar to many Great Plains cities. Driving through OKC reminded me a lot of driving through KC, Wichita, Tulsa, Omaha etc.. Dallas is just a mammoth version of a GP city. These states are similar in politics, culture, expression, city-styles, education attainment (although education attainment is higher in Kansas and places north). Now Austin, San Antonio, El Paso and Houston have less in common and they are excluded. I only consider the northern part of Texas which includes Dallas.

All I am doing is defining a region of cities that lie on a similar topography that have much in common. I'm not going to allow a sliver of southern atmosphere completely seperate OK and Dallas from the rest of the pack.
if topography alone is your argument then I could agree. but culturally linguistically and demographically ok and tx are not midwestern or like the other 4 states to the north.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,799,283 times
Reputation: 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
That is my point. The southern dialect is strong in Henry and St. Clair counties as well as much of the surrounding regional area. This is only 50-100 miles south of Kansas City. This is why Kansas City has significant southern influences very closeby.
that is not my experience nor do professional linguists agree. it is likely you are confusing south midland with south in terms of speech. other than barbecue, whichwas introduced to kc by henry perry of memphis almost a century ago, I dont see southern influence in kc. if there is, its no stronger than any other city in the lower midwest.henry and st clair have accents typical of the rural lower midwest
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Floyd County, IN
24,751 posts, read 42,526,936 times
Reputation: 17477
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
that is not my experience nor do professional linguists agree. it is likely you are confusing south midland with south in terms of speech. other than barbecue, whichwas introduced to kc by henry perry of memphis almost a century ago, I dont see southern influence in kc. if there is, its no stronger than any other city in the lower midwest.henry and st clair have accents typical of the rural lower midwest
That contradicts your prior post when you indicated that you did agree that Henry and St. Clair counties had southern dialects.
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,799,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GraniteStater View Post
That contradicts your prior post when you indicated that you did agree that Henry and St. Clair counties had southern dialects.
If it's contradictory, here's what is not...south midland is the dominant and native dialect in these two counties. That is the consensus of linguists and my observations coincide with it. I never deviated in this respect.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:18 PM
 
197 posts, read 627,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhw2 View Post
Interesting post, what do you consider frontier states? For those who claim Tx is southern, they need to get to know west texas including big bend country. Definately out west in Tx is what I consider to be frontier states.
I'd say the Rocky Mountain states like Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Colorado, and even say Washington State, Oregon, and California with the exception of the metropolises.

Those are the kind of wide open states
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Cleveland bound with MPLS in the rear-view
5,530 posts, read 11,258,843 times
Reputation: 2462
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
if topography alone is your argument then I could agree. but culturally linguistically and demographically ok and tx are not midwestern or like the other 4 states to the north.
We don't want Texas, and I'm almost positive Texas doesn't want us, or anyone for that matter (the "Lone Star State").
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,799,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by west336 View Post
We don't want Texas, and I'm almost positive Texas doesn't want us, or anyone for that matter (the "Lone Star State").
Most Texans from my experience welcome the idea of being labeled Southern, as do many Oklahomans. (TexasReb where are you?) Anybody who has ever been to Oklahoma or Texas should know that neither of these states should be included in the Midwest culturally, demographically, linguistically, or industrially.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,410 posts, read 5,985,168 times
Reputation: 6233
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Most Texans from my experience welcome the idea of being labeled Southern, as do many Oklahomans. (TexasReb where are you?) Anybody who has ever been to Oklahoma or Texas should know that neither of these states should be included in the Midwest culturally, demographically, linguistically, or industrially.
I agree. OK and TX are southern in my book. Famously I consider them southern all the way to their western terminus. Some consider only the eastern bits southern. Some go further than myself and consider eastern NM southern as well!

But I call Texas and Oklahoma the "Frontier south". The third region. Some call it the western south.

Mountain south, Lowland south, Frontier south. Or alternatively, Upper south, Deep south, Frontier south.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,661 posts, read 82,581,463 times
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The Midwest is what is left over after Easterners, Southerners and Westerners lay claim to what they call themselves.

The west starts about a quarter of the way across Nebraska, Kansas and the Dakotas. The south starts at Kansas City, St. Louis and the hill country of Indiana and Ohio. The east starts right after Cleveland.

The only states that are entirely in the Midwest are Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:52 AM
 
6,472 posts, read 15,639,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The Midwest is what is left over after Easterners, Southerners and Westerners lay claim to what they call themselves.

The east starts right after Cleveland.
I'm curious as to how you set this boundary...
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