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Unread 03-31-2012, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 1,754,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnhw2 View Post
I grew up in Southern Oklahoma and considered myself midwestern then not southern or western. I still feel that way about Oklahoma and Dallas to me feels as much midwestern as south or west. My definition of midwestern are down to earth people who dont mind the bi coastals referring to it as flyover country. They have no southern accent and tend to be down to earth types. Glitz and glamour arent part of their make up.. .come to thnk of it maybe that does excluded DFW<G>. Their weather is windy, with farming and manufacturing jobs s while ago. I dont consider Houston midwestern its more gulf coastal than midwestern to me which defines the weather and humidity in Houston and other gulf coast towns. Caveat, these categories are my own so your mpg may differ.
I'm not sure I agree with this...people from Southern Oklahoma and Dallas have very noticeable southern accents and culture to my ear and judgment. It's not the same cultural atmosphere or way of life as the Midwest either...not to mention, southern Oklahoma and Dallas really don't get much in the way of winter. These places are more like Arkansas and Louisiana than like any of the 12 Midwest states. I consider these places southern. They in no way remind me of where I'm from or anywhere else in the Midwest. Almost nowhere in the Midwest will you find places that grow cotton and peanuts.
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Unread 03-31-2012, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Midwest
506 posts, read 445,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
I could say the same thing when comparing Texas to Georgia or Virginia...why the topographic or climate debates? It's a state of mind and culture, not a state of appearance.
Why?
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Unread 03-31-2012, 01:52 PM
 
2,249 posts, read 3,714,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
I'm not sure I agree with this...people from Southern Oklahoma and Dallas have very noticeable southern accents and culture to my ear and judgment. It's not the same cultural atmosphere or way of life as the Midwest either...not to mention, southern Oklahoma and Dallas really don't get much in the way of winter. These places are more like Arkansas and Louisiana than like any of the 12 Midwest states. I consider these places southern. They in no way remind me of where I'm from or anywhere else in the Midwest. Almost nowhere in the Midwest will you find places that grow cotton and peanuts.
I tend to agree here. I have a hard time placing Michigan and Texas in the same cultural region.

I think the Midwest is the most broadly mis-defined region in the United States. Everyone knows exactly where New England is, most people have an idea where the South generally is, etc...but when it comes to the Midwest, it's a complete toss-up.

Practically every location from Billings, Montana to Dallas to Lancaster, Pennsylvania has, at some point or another, been considered to be the "Midwest."
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Unread 03-31-2012, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 1,754,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock_chalk View Post
Why?
Because claiming people who think differently, have a much different culture, and speak a much different dialect, should be grouped together with others in a similar climate or topography, is akin to saying buffalos and wolves should be considered the same species because they both live in Yellowstone.

Climate and topography alone aren't enough to dictate which people belong together and which aren't.

I view culture as being the primary identifier of regions...climate and topography are generally much more variable, even with regions themselves. Culture and dialect certainly correspond better to the Census Bureau (except with MD and DE).

if we used topography alone to classify regions, we'd end up considering Upstate New York and Alabama to be one and the same solely based on the fact that both are in the Appalachians. We'd also end up saying that Michigan and Massachusetts are in the same region solely because of cold winters.

The arguments just get weaker when you base them solely on topography and climate. Culture alone, by coincidence, often gets topography and climate to line up accurately, versus topography alone or climate alone. You can have similar topography and climates all over the world, but culture is a very unique identifier.
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Unread 03-31-2012, 04:57 PM
 
3,807 posts, read 2,243,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
It's kinda funny but you can get a sense where you spent most of your life by the way you classify regions. For example, when I lived in Mississippi no one there considered Kentucky to be part of the south but rather the midwest. But in Michigan, Kentucky is the first southern state you hit. The fact you left out Kentucky tells me you spent most of your life north of the mason dixon line. By including Minnesota and parts of the plain states with the midwest it tells me you spent at least some of your time west of the mississippi.

There are some people in Detroit who have commented to me about all the southern accents they heard in Dayton, Ohio.
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Unread 03-31-2012, 05:04 PM
 
Location: plano
3,217 posts, read 2,316,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
I'm not sure I agree with this...people from Southern Oklahoma and Dallas have very noticeable southern accents and culture to my ear and judgment. It's not the same cultural atmosphere or way of life as the Midwest either...not to mention, southern Oklahoma and Dallas really don't get much in the way of winter. These places are more like Arkansas and Louisiana than like any of the 12 Midwest states. I consider these places southern. They in no way remind me of where I'm from or anywhere else in the Midwest. Almost nowhere in the Midwest will you find places that grow cotton and peanuts.
I agree they do have accents but do not agree its a Southern accent. But there is more to a region than accent and weather imho. Do you consider Minnesota the midwest too? I hear a different accent there vs Michigan or Pennsylvania or Ohio. I agree our winters are milder but we do get winters where Houston really does not. I believe southern is as misdefined as those of you who feel you are midwestern but Ok and Tx are not. Lets hear your definition of what is midwestern and please give me more than weather and accent. Thanks
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Unread 03-31-2012, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Everywhere OKLAHOMA
3,838 posts, read 3,224,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
I'm not sure I agree with this...people from Southern Oklahoma and Dallas have very noticeable southern accents and culture to my ear and judgment. It's not the same cultural atmosphere or way of life as the Midwest either...not to mention, southern Oklahoma and Dallas really don't get much in the way of winter. These places are more like Arkansas and Louisiana than like any of the 12 Midwest states. I consider these places southern. They in no way remind me of where I'm from or anywhere else in the Midwest. Almost nowhere in the Midwest will you find places that grow cotton and peanuts.
As usual right on point here.

Oklahoma/Texas are Southern culturally more than anything else. Part of the Western-South as TexasReb always delineates 'em or the West South Central as the Census places OK/TX. These two states are really a Southern/Southwestern hybrid in many ways but the culture is overtly Southern. No arguing that.

I do know some Okies/Texans that just don't like the Southern tag and that they would love to have a different region all to ourselves say maybe South-Central? But if we have to be in one of the Big 5 regions (Northeast, Midwest, South, Southwest, West) then the South is the only way to go. Culture and history don't lie.
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Unread 03-31-2012, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,070 posts, read 1,751,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
As usual right on point here.

Oklahoma/Texas are Southern culturally more than anything else. Part of the Western-South as TexasReb always delineates 'em or the West South Central as the Census places OK/TX. These two states are really a Southern/Southwestern hybrid in many ways but the culture is overtly Southern. No arguing that.

I do know some Okies/Texans that just don't like the Southern tag and that they would love to have a different region all to ourselves say maybe South-Central? But if we have to be in one of the Big 5 regions (Northeast, Midwest, South, Southwest, West) then the South is the only way to go. Culture and history don't lie.
Oklahoma isn't really a good fit in any of the typical regions. The southeastern part is southern. The southwestern part is southwestern. The northeastern part is sort of odd mix of southern with a touch of midwestern and the northwestern part is pretty much exclusively plains or whatever western Kansas is.
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Unread 03-31-2012, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 1,754,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colts View Post
I tend to agree here. I have a hard time placing Michigan and Texas in the same cultural region.

I think the Midwest is the most broadly mis-defined region in the United States. Everyone knows exactly where New England is, most people have an idea where the South generally is, etc...but when it comes to the Midwest, it's a complete toss-up.

Practically every location from Billings, Montana to Dallas to Lancaster, Pennsylvania has, at some point or another, been considered to be the "Midwest."
I just like the definition the Census Bureau uses...to me that is the closest to accurate definition, although technically you could rid of the westernmost parts of the Plain states, and the southernmost parts of Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio. To me it is clear that some place like Billings is not the Midwest...all it takes is a little research and traveling to figure out where the Midwest is...but I will agree it's a bit harder to classify than the south.
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Unread 03-31-2012, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,713 posts, read 1,754,116 times
Reputation: 878
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Oklahoma isn't really a good fit in any of the typical regions. The southeastern part is southern. The southwestern part is southwestern. The northeastern part is sort of odd mix of southern with a touch of midwestern and the northwestern part is pretty much exclusively plains or whatever western Kansas is.
I don't agree at all here except for the panhandle. THe southwestern part is definitely southern...if Amarillo, Texas is southern, so is this place. The only part of Oklahoma I'd say that doesn't fall into the definition of southern is the panhandle. The rest of the state may have some minor influences from other regions, but culturally, demographically, and linguistically, this state is southern. No way would I ever group it in with the Southwest or the Midwest. Most of the state is southern. Oklahoma shares the most in common with fellow southern states Arkansas and Texas. Most of the state is classifiable as southern. Oklahoma shares the most in common with Arkansas and Texas, both of which are Southern states.
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