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Old 05-16-2012, 04:32 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,073 posts, read 5,447,005 times
Reputation: 4299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
Snowy is snowy, does it make a difference how much as long as there is enough to sled, ski, snowmobile in? A few more inches of snow doesn't make one place better than another.
Same with summer, as long as it's hot enough to be comfortable swimming and running around in a bathing suit all day who cares if one place is 5 or 10 degrees warmer than another.
I seriously doubt the OP was looking for extremes at either end...
Not exactly.

For winter sports, there is a big difference between "snowy" and "really snowy."

Grand Rapids, MI would be considered quite snowy by most of the country's standards. It gets 75 inches of snow per winter.

But it is not the greatest place for snowmobiling, etc. because the snow cover is not consistent all winter. There are enough freeze/thaw cycles that it ruins the snow pack on the snowmobile trails and ski hills numerous times during the winter.

If you go north 100 miles to Cadillac, though, conditions are MUCH better for winter sports. The snowfall totals get up closer to 90 inches (or sometimes much more) per winter, the snow hardly ever melts completely between December and March. It takes a LOT of snow to keep a good snow pack for snowmobile trails. Otherwise the trails get worn down to dirt from all of the traffic.

It is one thing to have enough snow to build a snow man or go sledding once in a while. But to have good, dependable conditions all winter for outdoor activities, it takes a lot more snow. Otherwise it is impossible to plan for weekend outings and the like.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:09 AM
Status: "could've~would've~should've used 'have', not 'of'" (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,453 posts, read 14,303,163 times
Reputation: 23177
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
Snowy is snowy, does it make a difference how much as long as there is enough to sled, ski, snowmobile in? A few more inches of snow doesn't make one place better than another.
Same with summer, as long as it's hot enough to be comfortable swimming and running around in a bathing suit all day who cares if one place is 5 or 10 degrees warmer than another.
I seriously doubt the OP was looking for extremes at either end...
Thought that was clear enough?
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:03 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,073 posts, read 5,447,005 times
Reputation: 4299
Quote:
Thought that was clear enough?
Well... it depends on what you mean by "enough" to snowmobile in. Does that mean enough to do it and enjoy it a few times every winter? Or enough to ride all winter long?

I live in lower Michigan, and you would be surprised how rarely the conditions are good for snowmobiling, even though there is technically snow on the ground.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
34,670 posts, read 33,671,635 times
Reputation: 51856
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiffytools View Post
Hi.
First post, so please be pleasant with me

The missus and I (both early 30s) are looking for somewhere to move in the States, where we will have lovely winters with lots of snow but also warm and hot summers, with lots of BBQ at night.

I don't mind the occasional thunderstorm, in fact I love them, but we are just fed up with the one season we have here in England, cold and rain.


We have a green card and employment is not that important, as self-employed. The main point really is the weather.

We were originally looking at Flagstaff, AZ, but they have about 200 nights per year below 40F, might be a chilly.

Any ideas? We are considering any of the 50 states.


Thank you so much in advance.

Kevin
How do you feel about Spring and Fall? One thing to inquire about is when some people tell you their state has 4 distinct seasons. My state has 4 distinct seasons but summer is really long and Fall and Spring are really short and Winter is like no big deal. Been here 5 years and haven't seen more than 3 inches of snow at one time. Plus, by the afternoon it usually melts.

Let me explain. I had my air conditioner on in March this year because we had temps in the eighties in March but that's unusual. September is just another summer month. So, our summers run from the beginning of May - about mid-October. Think of it as the time when you will only be in short sleeves. Not trying to sell you on my state. Just think you need to ask "How long is your winter/summer?"
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:40 PM
 
Location: SoCal
1,243 posts, read 1,569,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
Snowy is snowy, does it make a difference how much as long as there is enough to sled, ski, snowmobile in? A few more inches of snow doesn't make one place better than another.
Same with summer, as long as it's hot enough to be comfortable swimming and running around in a bathing suit all day who cares if one place is 5 or 10 degrees warmer than another.
I seriously doubt the OP was looking for extremes at either end...
Yes there is. For example a place that recieves mostly powder snow vs a place that recieves mostly wet snow...

Let's compare two ski areas: Mt Baker, WA and Alta, UT. Mt Baker is the snowiest resort on earth with 647 inches of snow/year. That snow is very high in water content so it's more dense. That density allows that resort to open more terrain a lot sooner with less snowfall. And snowpacks there can be quite ridiculous...I'm talking 25-30 feet in some years.

Alta, UT on the other hand is very dry so the water content in it's snowfall is very low but annual snowfall still exceeds 500 inches. Basically more inches of snow for every inch of rain. But that lack of density makes it more difficult to allow skiable conditions. So more snowfall is required right away to achieve the same conditions as it's California or PNW counterparts that can do that with less snow.

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Old 05-16-2012, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,226,540 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
The avg. high in July the past 10 years has been 86.....woops! How many days is that -- 31? It averages over 85 probably closer to 50-60 days per summer in Minneapolis. It can get unbearably hot (like St. Louis) a few times a year. Last year the hottest day had a heat index of 122 (high temp 103 degrees)......is that hot?

St. Louis does not get as cold as Mineapolis can get hot, so you have no basis for your argument here. You just have NO CLUE what you are talking about and, like so many C-D posters, are talking 100% out of their a$$e$! Now I'm not saying Minneapolis is super hot by any means, but it can and does get quite hot there in the summertime, with 15-20 90+ degree highs a year and 100+ every other year or so (which pales in comparison to places like Dallas, but we're not talking about Dallas). It also can and DOES get quite humid there. Dewpoints over 65 are usually considered uncomfortably humid, and over 75 oppressive. I'd be willing to bet that Minneapolis highest dewpoint last year (83) was higher than St. Louis'.......just a guess, but the point is that it gets humid and hot, not that it's moreso than St. Louis.

Look at stats before you speak, since ALL of this data is available here:

Preliminary Local Climatological Data - Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN
So leave if you despise so many people on here. We aren't asking you to stay.

In some ways, you've actually proven my point. Most people when they mean hot summers mean summers like St. Louis, not like Minneapolis, although that can vary. As far as dew points are concerned, those are irrelevant if the temperature isn't high enough.

You're going to try and tell me then that this means St. Louis doesn't get all four seasons...that's talking out of your a** just as much then, because possibly by cold and snowy, this person doesn't mean severe on the end of Minneapolis. Minneapolis is too cold for the average person. And temperatures usually never topping the mid-80s is based on the average high being 85 degrees, which is true, and leads the reasonable person to assume that that is the typical high there, plus several years on my own observing Minneapolis' weather on wunderground.com and the weatherchannel. As far as the past 10 years, these averages are based on the past 30 years. It's a well-known fact that the past 10 years have been considerably warmer everywhere due to global warming, and could easily be outliers from the norms. If that's talking out of my ass, that means all the experts do too, but I guess you consider all experts to be lower than you. I'd like to go ahead and tell you how rude you are, but that involves me getting nasty and risking getting banned from here, which I'm not giving you the satisfaction of.

Regardless, both of these live in humid continental climates, so they will see all four seasons...this proves the Midwest to be among the places in the country that get all four seasons.
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,226,540 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
Not exactly.

For winter sports, there is a big difference between "snowy" and "really snowy."

Grand Rapids, MI would be considered quite snowy by most of the country's standards. It gets 75 inches of snow per winter.

But it is not the greatest place for snowmobiling, etc. because the snow cover is not consistent all winter. There are enough freeze/thaw cycles that it ruins the snow pack on the snowmobile trails and ski hills numerous times during the winter.

If you go north 100 miles to Cadillac, though, conditions are MUCH better for winter sports. The snowfall totals get up closer to 90 inches (or sometimes much more) per winter, the snow hardly ever melts completely between December and March. It takes a LOT of snow to keep a good snow pack for snowmobile trails. Otherwise the trails get worn down to dirt from all of the traffic.

It is one thing to have enough snow to build a snow man or go sledding once in a while. But to have good, dependable conditions all winter for outdoor activities, it takes a lot more snow. Otherwise it is impossible to plan for weekend outings and the like.
This seems to a problem the OP didn't specify...many people I know when they say they want a hot summer mean really hot, or cold meaning really cold...if you don't want a really hot summer, say a warm summer, or if not really cold, say a moderate winter. Luckily, the Midwest offers both of those...moderate summers in some areas, really hot in others, moderate winters in some areas, really cold in others.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,311,571 times
Reputation: 4270
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
So leave if you despise so many people on here. We aren't asking you to stay.

In some ways, you've actually proven my point. Most people when they mean hot summers mean summers like St. Louis, not like Minneapolis, although that can vary. As far as dew points are concerned, those are irrelevant if the temperature isn't high enough.

You're going to try and tell me then that this means St. Louis doesn't get all four seasons...that's talking out of your a** just as much then, because possibly by cold and snowy, this person doesn't mean severe on the end of Minneapolis. Minneapolis is too cold for the average person. And temperatures usually never topping the mid-80s is based on the average high being 85 degrees, which is true, and leads the reasonable person to assume that that is the typical high there, plus several years on my own observing Minneapolis' weather on wunderground.com and the weatherchannel. As far as the past 10 years, these averages are based on the past 30 years. It's a well-known fact that the past 10 years have been considerably warmer everywhere due to global warming, and could easily be outliers from the norms. If that's talking out of my ass, that means all the experts do too, but I guess you consider all experts to be lower than you. I'd like to go ahead and tell you how rude you are, but that involves me getting nasty and risking getting banned from here, which I'm not giving you the satisfaction of.

Regardless, both of these live in humid continental climates, so they will see all four seasons...this proves the Midwest to be among the places in the country that get all four seasons.
Most people when they mean hot summers mean summers like St. Louis, not like Minneapolis, although that can vary.

You have a point....if you say "hot summers" I don't think Minneapolis applies, but if you say "can get hot in the summer" then I think it applies. You could say the SAME thing about St. Louis though: "cold and snowy winters" vs. "It can get cold and snowy in the winter".


It's a well-known fact that the past 10 years have been considerably warmer everywhere due to global warming, and could easily be outliers from the norms

I used the 10 year average PRECISELY because it's been so much warmer lately, and to give the OP a better idea of the true current weather. The 10 year average July high is actually closer to 86 or 87, but I put down 85 because weather.com will say it's 84, and I figured that was a fair compromise. 85 isn't "hot" to most people, but if that's the average and the standard deviation is amongst the largest in the nation in terms of temperature extremes, that means the average summer sees highs as low as the upper 60's to low 70's when it rains, to the upper 90's and low 100's....and sometimes WITH high humidity (dewpoint is relavent when the temps are above 80 or so, I'd say)......there's almost nobody who wouldn't call that hot!

I'm not sure why you're so steamed....I never said I was an expert, or that I was smarter than scientists....I just backed up my words with data to ensure you that I was NOT talking out of my a$$. I don't have a thing against St. Louis, but if I remember correctly, YOU were the one who made the comment about Minneapolis' weather FIRST, and I responded with data and other rhetoric. Minneapolis is hot in the summer and cold/snowy in the winter almost the SAME as St. Louis is "hot in the summer and cold/snowy in the winter", with the emphasis on the latter for Minneapolis and the former for St. Louis.

Perhaps somewhere inbetween (like Des Moines OR Omaha) would be the perfect compromise for the OP???
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:36 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, MO
4,009 posts, read 5,507,822 times
Reputation: 4545
St. Louis in Summer





St. Louis in Fall





St. Louis in Winter





St. Louis in Spring







Looks like Four Perfect Seasons to me!!! With hot summers, and cold winters At least in my opinion! PERFECT!
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,226,540 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
Most people when they mean hot summers mean summers like St. Louis, not like Minneapolis, although that can vary.

You have a point....if you say "hot summers" I don't think Minneapolis applies, but if you say "can get hot in the summer" then I think it applies. You could say the SAME thing about St. Louis though: "cold and snowy winters" vs. "It can get cold and snowy in the winter".


It's a well-known fact that the past 10 years have been considerably warmer everywhere due to global warming, and could easily be outliers from the norms

I used the 10 year average PRECISELY because it's been so much warmer lately, and to give the OP a better idea of the true current weather. The 10 year average July high is actually closer to 86 or 87, but I put down 85 because weather.com will say it's 84, and I figured that was a fair compromise. 85 isn't "hot" to most people, but if that's the average and the standard deviation is amongst the largest in the nation in terms of temperature extremes, that means the average summer sees highs as low as the upper 60's to low 70's when it rains, to the upper 90's and low 100's....and sometimes WITH high humidity (dewpoint is relavent when the temps are above 80 or so, I'd say)......there's almost nobody who wouldn't call that hot!

I'm not sure why you're so steamed....I never said I was an expert, or that I was smarter than scientists....I just backed up my words with data to ensure you that I was NOT talking out of my a$$. I don't have a thing against St. Louis, but if I remember correctly, YOU were the one who made the comment about Minneapolis' weather FIRST, and I responded with data and other rhetoric. Minneapolis is hot in the summer and cold/snowy in the winter almost the SAME as St. Louis is "hot in the summer and cold/snowy in the winter", with the emphasis on the latter for Minneapolis and the former for St. Louis.

Perhaps somewhere inbetween (like Des Moines OR Omaha) would be the perfect compromise for the OP???

Omaha is not much better in the summer than STL. Omaha's high in July is 87 degrees, and the humidity is awful from people I know that have lived there and looking at records. Temperatures getting into the high to mid 90s is pretty common, although they may get more breaks from the heat.

However, i agree that Omaha and Des Moines reliably hit the extremes in both seasons moreso than Minny and STL, although in some years STL will get bad winters and minneapolis will get bad summers it appears.


I guess I've always thought of Minneapolis' opposite as being more like Louisiana or Arkansas, but I guess Canada might be a better fit for an opposite.


I will admit that looking up Minneapolis, I was somewhat shocked that in the early 2000s, Minneapolis got pretty damn hot, and did the same thing multiple years. I didn't notice it do that from I don't know, I want to say 2007-2009, but I guess those were odd years. I guess Minneapolis' summers are not as mild as i thought in some respects. However, Eastern Wisconsin and Michigan are pretty mild in the summer...the Great Lakes generally keep them from getting that bad...Detroit and Cleveland getting into the upper 80s is not that common in the summer. What I was saying though, was that St. Louis gets below 32 more often than these cities reaching the upper 80s 90s, and that I know is true for a fact...the average high is above 32, but nights here are almost always below freezing. I guess if they are opposites, one can Minneapolis "moderate" in the summer and bad in the winter, just as one could call St. Louis "moderate" in the winter and bad in the summer. Calling minneapolis mild in the summer I guess doesn't seem as proper of a classification now.
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