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Old 03-07-2012, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,103,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
Without Including Midtown, The area is already bigger than the areas you chose for Boston, LA, SF and Seattle
No, it wasn't.

Either way Midtown is big stretch for counting as a downtown area. If you count that in with Houston you can start counting areas like Exposition Park (USC area) and out to Koreatown in LA, just as one example.

LA's downtown is definitely not 1.25 square miles. Going by this, which is smaller than what I marked out on google maps, Downtown LA is 5.84 square miles: Downtown Profile - Mapping L.A. - Los Angeles Times

Looks like you are going by CBDs. That info you posted, while useful in ranking downtowns, is not really in the spirit of the question asked by the OP.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,922,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
Without Including Midtown, The area is already bigger than the areas you chose for Boston, LA, SF and Seattle

Anyway. Danny once posted this. It is the areas considered DT for each city:

Keep in mind for Metropolitan Areas that are Poly-Nodal like Minneapolis-Saint Paul, Bay Area, & Dallas-Fort Worth, this information is Downtown Minneapolis + Downtown Saint Paul, Downtown Dallas + Downtown Fort Worth, Downtown Oakland + Downtown San Jose + Downtown San Francisco.

Top 20 Largest Central Business Districts by Land Area:
01. New York City: 7.82 Square Miles
02. Chicago: 3.36 Square Miles
03. Miami: 2.91 Square Miles
04. Columbus: 2.47 Square Miles
05. Bay Area: 2.34 Square Miles
06. Washington DC: 2.30 Square Miles
07. Atlanta: 2.17 Square Miles
08. Philadelphia: 1.71 Square Miles
09. Austin: 1.59 Square Miles
10. Cleveland: 1.54 Square Miles
11. Houston: 1.53 Square Miles (Tie with Denver)
12. Denver: 1.53 Square Miles (Tie with Houston)
13. Seattle: 1.48 Square Miles
14. Los Angeles: 1.25 Square Miles
15. Boston: 1.23 Square Miles
16. Baltimore: 1.09 Square Miles
17. New Orleans: 1.06 Square Miles
18. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 0.72 Square Miles
19. Dallas-Fort Worth: 0.67 Square Miles
20. Pittsburgh: 0.66 Square Miles


Top 20 Largest Central Business Districts by Employment Population:
01. New York City: 1,736,900
02. Chicago: 541,500
03. Washington DC: 382,400
04. Bay Area: 305,600
05. Boston: 257,000
06. Philadelphia: 220,100
07. Seattle: 155,100
08. Houston: 153,400
09. Los Angeles: 143,700
10. Atlanta: 129,800
11. Denver: 126,000
12. Minneapolis-Saint Paul: 105,400
13. Cleveland: 100,300
14. Baltimore: 98,500
15. Miami: 98,000
16. Pittsburgh: 95,600
17. Columbus: 88,800
18. Austin: 86,000
19. New Orleans: 81,400
20. Dallas-Fort Worth: 79,900


The listings change dramatically when you start adding in Midtowns and other areas. For Houston I would Add midtown, China Town and Allen Parkway to the mix making the area about 4 sq miles.


The Employment numbers are also from 2000, so the data is really really old.


I think Columbus and other places would drop down the list once office space and other buildings are taken into account. According to Grubb Ellis this is the top CBD's:

1. Midtown Manhattan- 213,818,31
2. CBD Chicago- 130,317,15
3. CBD DC- 107,337,31
4. DT Manhattan- 76,000,76
5. MT S Manhattan- 74,577,47
6. CBD Boston- 64,407,32
7. CBD SF- 45,176,67
8. CBD Philadelphia- 44,261,375
9. CBD Houston- 43,214,941
10. CBD LA- 32,159,55
11. Minneapolis- 28,299,243 (The report lists St P separately and then combines them in the end as one district)
12. Pittsburgh- 27,841,801 (they included fringe areas)
13. CBD Dallas- 26,890,00 (The report lists FW separately and then combines them in the end as one district)
14. Denver- 26,493,570
15. Cleveland- 21,969,702
16. Portland- 19,779,070
17. CBD Atlanta- 17,288,368
18. Phoenix- 15,779,714
19. Indianapolis- 14,709,070
20. Detroit- 13,187,372
21. Miami- 13,133,897
22. Milwaukee- 12,439,588
23. Columbus- 12,289,442
24. Cincinnati- 11,919,525
25. San Diego- 11,393,918
26. St Paul- 10,059,518
27. Fort Worth- 9,956,82
28. Austin- 8,490,93
29. San Jose- 8,355,347

So taking in Land area, business space and workers into consideration I would rank the top ten like this

1. NY
2. Chicago
3. DC
4. Boston
5. Philadelphia
6. Houston
7. San Francisco
8. Los Angeles
9. Atlanta
10. Miami
You also have to factor in population. But I agree with this mostly. Also, if you included Downtown, Uptown and the Medical Center in Houston, it would have a much larger CBD.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 28,157,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
No, it wasn't.

Either way Midtown is big stretch for counting as a downtown area. If you count that in with Houston you can start counting areas like Exposition Park (USC area) and out to Koreatown in LA, just as one example.

LA's downtown is definitely not 1.25 square miles. Going by this, which is smaller than what I marked out on google maps, Downtown LA is 5.84 square miles: Downtown Profile - Mapping L.A. - Los Angeles Times

Looks like you are going by CBDs. That info you posted, while useful in ranking downtowns, is not really in the spirit of the question asked by the OP.
not my List. i said I got it from Danny. They used census 2000 stats
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
10,087 posts, read 13,103,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
You also have to factor in population. But I agree with this mostly. Also, if you included Downtown, Uptown and the Medical Center in Houston, it would have a much larger CBD.
That is not the question the OP asked. I could start throwing in Century City to LA, and Buckhead to Atlanta.

As I understand the question of the OP, it is asking "What downtown areas continuously feel the largest from the center out?"

You can't skip over miles of low density, low rise residential districts and add on satellite CBDs.
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,922,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by munchitup View Post
That is not the question the OP asked. I could start throwing in Century City to LA, and Buckhead to Atlanta.

As I understand the question of the OP, it is asking "What downtown areas continuously feel the largest from the center out?"

You can't skip over miles of low density, low rise residential districts and add on satellite CBDs.
I meant if they were built next to each other side by side without the gaps and continuous highrise development. Sorry I should have typed it a little more clearer to what I meant.

And I already answered the question the OP asked with a list of my own.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 28,157,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
I meant if they were built next to each other side by side without the gaps and continuous highrise development. Sorry I should have typed it a little more clearer to what I meant.

And I already answered the question the OP asked with a list of my own.
The marketing companies put out lists of total office space by city.

Houston has 207M sq feet (with the medical center, 170s without)with a 16% vacancy rate
Atlanta has 161M with a 23% vacancy rate

Chicago has 237M sq feet with a 19% vacancy rate
Seattle has 90M with a 16.5% vacancy
Philly is at 105M witha 17% vacancy
LA has 190M with a 17% vacancy
193M for Boston with a 15% vacancy

And the big Daddy Manhattan is at 364M with an 8.5% vacancy
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:40 PM
 
1,547 posts, read 2,350,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
The marketing companies put out lists of total office space by city.

Houston has 207M sq feet (with the medical center, 170s without)with a 16% vacancy rate
Atlanta has 161M with a 23% vacancy rate

Chicago has 237M sq feet with a 19% vacancy rate
Seattle has 90M with a 16.5% vacancy
Philly is at 105M witha 17% vacancy
LA has 190M with a 17% vacancy
193M for Boston with a 15% vacancy

And the big Daddy Manhattan is at 364M with an 8.5% vacancy
New York times did article on Seattle rapidly growing office market they said Seattles vacancy rate is 12.4% but will be in the single didgets by years end also talked about Amazons three new higrises being built for 600million in southlake union area of downtown.
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Old 03-07-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Up on the moon laughing down on you
18,509 posts, read 28,157,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcouger View Post
New York times did article on Seattle rapidly growing office market they said Seattles vacancy rate is 12.4% but will be in the single didgets by years end also talked about Amazons three new higrises being built for 600million in southlake union area of downtown.
well different reports usually differ slightly on numbers.

That is awesome for Seattle if it can get its vacancy rates to single digits.

This is the market report I used: http://www.grubb-ellis.com/Forecast2...FF_2011_4Q.pdf

It does say that the Lake Union area vacancy rate is 12.4% so maybe that is what the article was talking about?
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,922,865 times
Reputation: 3574
Quote:
Originally Posted by HtownLove View Post
The marketing companies put out lists of total office space by city.

Houston has 207M sq feet (with the medical center, 170s without)with a 16% vacancy rate
Atlanta has 161M with a 23% vacancy rate

Chicago has 237M sq feet with a 19% vacancy rate
Seattle has 90M with a 16.5% vacancy
Philly is at 105M witha 17% vacancy
LA has 190M with a 17% vacancy
193M for Boston with a 15% vacancy

And the big Daddy Manhattan is at 364M with an 8.5% vacancy
I agree, this is a better way to judge CBD's. However these numbers are wrong for Philly. Last reported on February 6th, 2012, the vacancy rate for the city was only 11.3% and is decreasing. It will be in the single digits by the end of the year.

Some of the suburbs have higher rates though. Bala Cynwyd and King of Prussia had a 14.3% vacancy rate and Blue Bell had an 18.8% vacancy rate.

Overall rent was up 2.3% however and rent is continuing to rise. There are several firms looking for over a million square feet (all firms square space needs combined) total in office space however. Comcast is also in need of more space. Independence Blue Cross is also in need of space and is in talks to fill the space within a mixed-use skyscraper at 20th and Market that Brandywine is planning that has yet to start construction. I expect the building to be at least 30 floors.

"Philadelphia ranks among the U.S. cities that have the least amount of vacant space in the CBD, along with New York, Boston, Washington, D.C., and Portland, Grubb & Ellis reported. The highest vacancy markets are in Detroit, Cincinnati, Atlanta, and Dallas."
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Toronto
3,338 posts, read 5,789,769 times
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How about downtowns as ranked on that are "lively on the street" with people walking etc., nightlife etc.?

I would consider a downtown's influence based not on just buildings etc. but "volume of people on the ground", even at non-office hours.

I think a measure of how many people are going around shopping, walking, clubbing is a good measure of that. To me that's what makes a downtown a place to go, not office buildings.
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