U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 03-19-2012, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,336,032 times
Reputation: 36087

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
My parents from northern Missouri say that your statement is false.
I grew up in Wisconsin, in the 40s and 50s, spent my summer vacations with relatives in northern Missouri, and went to college in Louisiana. I can tell you from my own personal experience that in those days, the southern accent was thick and widespread as far north as southern Iowa and central Illinois. I now live in south Texas, and rarely hear anyone here with a southern accent. If you had lived through the change yourself, you'd know what I'm talking about.

My Missouri cousin, as a child in the 50s, had a very strong accent, but now he lives in Detroit, and has no accent at all, nor does his wife.

It's not that I've gotten used to it and don't hear it anymore, I still do hear it among people who have it, but it is becoming extremely rare among younger or more urban people, and remains only in older people from the country. I have a friend in her 70's with post-gradiuate degrees, and her accent is still almost comical, but I've known her since the 60s and then, she sounded just like everyone else in the south.

By the time I was growing up, my dad had lost his Missouri accent, which is very quickly lost as soon as a southerner is no longer exposed to it. By the 60s, a southern accent was no longer acceptable in the south for radio announcers and college professors, and more and more southerners were living in an environment where the accent was no longer being reinforced.

"Learned to talk like the man on the 6 oclock news" --- Don Williams, "Good Ole Boys Like Me".

Last edited by jtur88; 03-19-2012 at 09:53 AM..
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-19-2012, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,233,455 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
My parents from northern Missouri say that your statement is false.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 09:49 AM
 
2,755 posts, read 11,771,479 times
Reputation: 1464
Not many places like this, because non-Southerners are far more likely to relocate south than the other way around.

Perhaps some places in the SW that attract immigration from southerners in Texas. Parts of New Mexico might qualify on that score. That said, the southeastern corner of New Mexico has long been called "Little Texas" so this is hardly new. Even so, Some of the mountain resort areas in southern New Mexico, such as Ruidoso, are not "traditionally" part of Little Texas but certainly attract a lot of relocating Texans looking for real mountains and snow. Even parts of the mountains of Colorado have attract a lot of Texans, though I think it's a stretch to say that they are becoming "southern."
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,233,455 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I grew up in Wisconsin, in the 40s and 50s, spent my summer vacations with relatives in northern Missouri, and went to college in Louisiana. I can tell you from my own personal experience that in those days, the southern accent was thick and widespread as far north as southern Iowa and central Illinois. I now live in south Texas, and rarely hear anyone here with a southern accent. If you had lived through the change yourself, you'd know what I'm talking about.

It's not that I've gotten used to it and don't hear it anymore, I still do hear it among people who have it, but it is becoming extremely rare among younger or more urban people, and remains only in older people from the country. I have a friend in her 70's with post-gradiuate degrees, and her accent is still almost comical, but I've known her since the 60s and then, she sounded just like everyone else in the south.

By the time I was growing up, my dad had lost his Missouri accent, which is very quickly lost as soon as a southerner is no longer exposed to it. By the 60s, a southern accent was no longer acceptable in the south for radio announcers and college professors, and more and more southerners were living in an environment where the accent was no longer being reinforced.

"Learned to talk like the man on the 6 oclock news" --- Don Williams, "Good Ole Boys Like Me".
Once again, I have to disagree...there is zero evidence to back your statements. I have family from Missouri going back 100 years. Have heard a good portion of them born before the '40s speak....somebody with a thick southern accent at the places you designate, especially post-Civil War, were either out of the norm or unheard of. The dialect maps done by the University of Pennsylvania, lingustics professionals I might add, which it seems you aren't, have respected their boundaries for at least 100 years.

Just let the professionals do their jobs and stop pretending you can do it too. If anybody could do linguistics without going to school, it wouldn't be a major. The changeover also didn't occur with Baby Boomers...native dialects weakened their hold I'd say beginning with Generation X. Nowadays, people born and raised in Memphis speak general American pretty regularly...that is something I can assure you would never have happened prior to the '50s. Anybody born in the late '60s or later is less likely to exhibit the dialect of their region. Baby Boomers still adhere pretty strictly to the dialects we'd expect to be associated with certain regions.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,233,455 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I grew up in Wisconsin, in the 40s and 50s, spent my summer vacations with relatives in northern Missouri, and went to college in Louisiana. I can tell you from my own personal experience that in those days, the southern accent was thick and widespread as far north as southern Iowa and central Illinois. I now live in south Texas, and rarely hear anyone here with a southern accent. If you had lived through the change yourself, you'd know what I'm talking about.

My Missouri cousin, as a child in the 50s, had a very strong accent, but now he lives in Detroit, and has no accent at all, nor does his wife.

It's not that I've gotten used to it and don't hear it anymore, I still do hear it among people who have it, but it is becoming extremely rare among younger or more urban people, and remains only in older people from the country. I have a friend in her 70's with post-gradiuate degrees, and her accent is still almost comical, but I've known her since the 60s and then, she sounded just like everyone else in the south.

By the time I was growing up, my dad had lost his Missouri accent, which is very quickly lost as soon as a southerner is no longer exposed to it. By the 60s, a southern accent was no longer acceptable in the south for radio announcers and college professors, and more and more southerners were living in an environment where the accent was no longer being reinforced.

"Learned to talk like the man on the 6 oclock news" --- Don Williams, "Good Ole Boys Like Me".
If you believe a Missouri accent is a southern accent, I strongly implore you to look at linguistics maps....there is a difference between an accent that has southern overtones and an accent that is strongly and thickly southern. "South Midland" has been the classification for that dialect at least since the early 20th century. As i've said before...it has similarities to a southern accent, but has lacks many general features and absent terms that prevent it from being classified as southern. Missouri's rural accent historically had a stronger twang, but nothing like the dialect you find in the bootheel, which is much more like what you hear in Texas, ever existed in most of the state. I know the dialect because my grandmother, who was born in Mexico, Missouri in 1913, and resided in Missouri for over 60 years (prior to the Civil War near the heart of the southern settlers' influence in Missouri), spoke it. In Louisiana, where she moved later, she stuck out like a sore thumb with her dialect. Sam Walton and the executive of Enron, Lay, spoke that accent as well. If your relatives spoke any thicker than that, they were not the norm for Missouri. The simple fact they still sounded like that despite moving further south is ample proof that they didn't lose their "Missouri" accent.

When you can prove linguists wrong, I'll take this more seriously. And as far as your relatives moving to Detroit, I have a hard time believing they lost it,especially because the case of Eminem. (His accent is more African American vernacular than anything else, sounds nothing like northern missouri, but that's pretty unusual for somebody in Detroit). There are plenty of youtube videos if you will look them up on old timers from Northern Missouri that will show you that dialect...type in "Missouri farmers CAFO"..you''ll see guys as old as theird mid-70s. It is not thick at all...just some southern overtones....it's an accent that has always represented the rural lower Midwest well.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,438 posts, read 10,087,256 times
Reputation: 5925
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I grew up in Wisconsin, in the 40s and 50s, spent my summer vacations with relatives in northern Missouri, and went to college in Louisiana. I can tell you from my own personal experience that in those days, the southern accent was thick and widespread as far north as southern Iowa and central Illinois. I now live in south Texas, and rarely hear anyone here with a southern accent. If you had lived through the change yourself, you'd know what I'm talking about.

My Missouri cousin, as a child in the 50s, had a very strong accent, but now he lives in Detroit, and has no accent at all, nor does his wife.

It's not that I've gotten used to it and don't hear it anymore, I still do hear it among people who have it, but it is becoming extremely rare among younger or more urban people, and remains only in older people from the country. I have a friend in her 70's with post-gradiuate degrees, and her accent is still almost comical, but I've known her since the 60s and then, she sounded just like everyone else in the south.

By the time I was growing up, my dad had lost his Missouri accent, which is very quickly lost as soon as a southerner is no longer exposed to it. By the 60s, a southern accent was no longer acceptable in the south for radio announcers and college professors, and more and more southerners were living in an environment where the accent was no longer being reinforced.

"Learned to talk like the man on the 6 oclock news" --- Don Williams, "Good Ole Boys Like Me".
I can't comment on the specifics of a Missouri accent, but I can attest that the current culture has "dumbed down" distinctives in accents. My children, who have been raised primarily in the Atlanta and Dallas suburbs do not have the southern accent that their parents and grand parents do. A northerner would still here some southern influences, but I feel it is more a generic US suburban accent with southern influences.

When they are around their first cousins that grew up in rural Georgia (my hometown) the difference is striking. Kind of makes me sad.

I did grow up with that shame factor of having a southern accent, part of the overall US culture that has equated souterness with ignorance. I am over that now and proudly where my southern heritage. I'm not going full out Paula Dean, but not trying to be something I'm not, lol.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,233,455 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
I can't comment on the specifics of a Missouri accent, but I can attest that the current culture has "dumbed down" distinctives in accents. My children, who have been raised primarily in the Atlanta and Dallas suburbs do not have the southern accent that their parents and grand parents do. A northerner would still here some southern influences, but I feel it is more a generic US suburban accent with southern influences.

When they are around their first cousins that grew up in rural Georgia (my hometown) the difference is striking. Kind of makes me sad.

I did grow up with that shame factor of having a southern accent, part of the overall US culture that has equated souterness with ignorance. I am over that now and proudly where my southern heritage. I'm not going full out Paula Dean, but not trying to be something I'm not, lol.
Regardess of how dumbed down a southern accent has become, it's still fairly prominent in the south and easy to spot with little effort. It may have less southern characteristics, but the influences are strong enough to classify it as a southern accent. Even as far north as Louisville, the accents I here still are undeniably too strong to be dismissed as "southern-influenced." It hasn't "dumbed down" nearly to the point of anything I ever heard from my early-20th century ancestors. And as far as a U.S. suburban accent with southern influences, that's pretty absent here except in places like Sikeston, Missouri, although you still hear extremely thick accents as well. If necessary I will provide the most recent maps of southern linguistic speech patterns...all of which basically adhere to the late 1980s at the earliest.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,336,032 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Once again, I have to disagree...there is zero evidence to back your statements. .
There is zero SURVIVING evidence. I was there in the 40s and I heard them.

By the way, I'm speaking broadly of the whole range of accents that northerners perceived as indiscriminately southern, from Maryland to West Texas, significantly more pronounced in rural areas. Undeniably, there are variations within that range, but throughout the range, it's being lost or watered down in favor of a much more homogeneous American speech pattern.

Last edited by jtur88; 03-19-2012 at 01:04 PM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,756,105 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You mean northern cities that have a foreign automobile assembly plant? In my view, southern cities are having a very hard time staying southern. The country is a lot more homogenized in the past couple of generations. There isn't really any such thing as a southern city anymore. Southern congressmen don't even have an accent anymore, except Lindsay Graham.

In the 50s, people spoke with a very strong southern accent even in northern Missouri and southern Ohio.
Um......what?
No, they didnt.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-19-2012, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,336,032 times
Reputation: 36087
^^^ How do you know? My aunt and uncle and cousins did, in Hannibal and Moberly, and everyone in their neighborhood did, too.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top