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Old 03-20-2012, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,233,455 times
Reputation: 998

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
These Hannibal accents don't sound too far off from the southern suburbanites.

Would be interested in what people hear that is a strong identifier of what makes an accent southern. The first thing for me is how a long I is pronounced. Southerners spread their mouths and don't get enough nasal into it, more oh an ahh. These Hannibal kids all seemed to get that quick ah/ee blend that happens when a little more nasal tone gets into it.

Maybe not the proper phonetic explanation, but hope you get my drift. What other specifics tip you off that an accent is southern?
I can't believe what I'm hearing...have either you or Smtchll ever lived in the south at all?

And what's more, the two of you are trying to disprove conclusions reached by professional linguists. What's next? People are going to try to do the doctor's job? The "suburbanites" of the South Midland corridor actually don't speak like this at all...this is a rural accent. I've been to Atlanta and heard kids speak...many use phrases and patterns not exhibited by anyone here, starting with their "i's", "o's", etc. Compare this to say, as far north as Pikeville, Kentucky and you get something that's not even close to similar. I've heard as much or more as either of you.

I'm going to provide the University of Pennsylvania's extensive study just to settle this debate. When in doubt, consult with the professionals. This is how you diagnose accents, not by listening to a single video.
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atla...tionalMap.html

Last edited by stlouisan; 03-20-2012 at 11:58 AM..
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,439 posts, read 10,087,256 times
Reputation: 5924
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
I can't believe what I'm hearing...have either you or Smtchll ever lived in the south at all?

And what's more, the two of you are trying to disprove conclusions reached by professional linguists. What's next? People are going to try to do the doctor's job? The "suburbanites" of the South Midland corridor actually don't speak like this at all...this is a rural accent. I've been to Atlanta and heard kids speak...many use phrases and patterns not exhibited by anyone here, starting with their "i's", "o's", etc. Compare this to say, as far north as Pikeville, Kentucky and you get something that's not even close to similar. I've heard as much or more as either of you.

I'm going to provide the University of Pennsylvania's extensive study just to settle this debate. When in doubt, consult with the professionals. I'd like to see the two of you attempt to do this good of a job.

National Map
Why are you being so defensive? I brought up the long "I" in the kids in this video because it is definitely NOT southern.

I am suggesting that there is a new variation in linguistic patterns from suburban melting pots, cities like Dallas and Atlanta that have grown in the last few decades from transplants from all over. The younger generations are hearing speech patterns from an early age that their forebears didn't hear.

And yes, I've lived in the south all my life, so I am hearing the younger generations in my own family... those nephews, nieces and cousins that have remained rural have a MUCH stronger southern accent than my kids and and other nephews and nieces that have grown up in suburban Atlanta and Dallas.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,336,032 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post

IN ANY EVENT, the question to this thread was whether there are places in the north that are becoming more southern. I'd have to say no...that's it the opposite. while southern beverages and cuisine may be growing more widely accepted, the north is undoubtedly spreading further south.
I agree with you completely, which was my original point, and I used accent as a correct and accurate illustration of that. Videos of people in Missouri in the 21st century bear out what I had said -- that people there no longer have a southern accent.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,756,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I agree with you completely, which was my original point, and I used accent as a correct and accurate illustration of that. Videos of people in Missouri in the 21st century bear out what I had said -- that people there no longer have a southern accent.
They never did in the first place, except for the bootheel.
You keep saying this, and it is not correct in the slightest.
Stlouisan told you where one can go to see old videos, etc to hear the accents.
One can only ponder why you are not doing so.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:05 PM
 
Location: West Tennessee
2,082 posts, read 2,904,002 times
Reputation: 1337
I have never met anyone from farther north in the state of Missouri than Rolla that had any sort of Southern accent.

Southern accents exist somewhere around the US 60 line and farther south.

Senath, MO - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaNfq...7&feature=plcp
That is a southern accent.

Dexter, MO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgGjZfQas-I
The man on the left has a southern accent.

The kid in the Hannibal video sounds like the accent in Rolla. Typical Missouri twang.

Last edited by GunnerTHB; 03-20-2012 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,336,032 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
They never did in the first place, except for the bootheel.
You keep saying this, and it is not correct in the slightest.
Stlouisan told you where one can go to see old videos, etc to hear the accents.
One can only ponder why you are not doing so.
Give me the links to the old videos. Are you talking about Smtchll's video, which appears to be very recent, with kids born in the 1990s, which says nothing about how people talked there 50 years ago. Stlouisan linked to a study in the 1990s, which showed that even then, northern Missouri is in the South Midlands band, much closer to the southern than to the accents of the northern Midwest. The area called South Midland, in the Pennsylvania study, has, to this day, what a northerner would call a southern accent, because it resembles a southern accent to the ear of anyone who is not a University of Pennsylvania PhD linguist.

The only arguments you people are coming up with are that people who lived there didn't think they had an accent. Nobody ever thinks they have an accent, so that is not relevant. You're both Missourians saying "Who. me? I don't have an accent".

Before anybody else puts words in my mouth, I am not saying northern Missouri has a southern accent now, so quit telling me that they don't. I'm saying they did 50-60 years ago, and it has changed, and the topic of this thread is areas that have changed their northern/southern orientation. In fact the whole south has changed, and people in the deep south now speak with much less of a southern accent than they did 60 years ago.

Last edited by jtur88; 03-20-2012 at 01:25 PM..
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:18 PM
 
Location: West Tennessee
2,082 posts, read 2,904,002 times
Reputation: 1337
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Give me the links to the old videos. Are you talking about Smtchll's video, which appears to be very recent, with kids born in the 1990s, which says nothing about how people talked there 50 years ago. Stlouisan linked to a study in the 1990s, which showed that even then, northern Missouri is in the South Midlands band, much closer to the southern than to the accents of the northern Midwest.

The only arguments you people are coming up with are that people who lived there didn't think their grandparents had an accent. Nobody ever thinks they have an accent, so that is not relevant.
First off, my grandpa barely spoke English as far as many were concerned (Thats how thick his accent was), and he was a 4th generation immigrant from Wales. That side of the family lived in the Baton Rouge area for about 50 years before coming to Southeast Missouri. You can take it to the bank that everyone in the family knew he had an accent.

South Midland is a midland dialect, meaning it is tied more closely to the Midland (Midwest) than the South. While I take the borders of dialect maps with a grain of salt sometimes (Mainly due to the fact that some of them would suggest that I should have the same dialect as someone from Omaha, Nebraska ), I have never seen ANY evidence that southern accents were spoken in northern Missouri after the Civil War.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,756,105 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Give me the links to the old videos. Are you talking about Smtchll's video, which appears to be very recent, with kids born in the 1990s, which says nothing about how people talked there 50 years ago. Stlouisan linked to a study in the 1990s, which showed that even then, northern Missouri is in the South Midlands band, much closer to the southern than to the accents of the northern Midwest.

The only arguments you people are coming up with are that people who lived there didn't think their grandparents had an accent. Nobody ever thinks they have an accent, so that is not relevant.
Do I look like your assistant?
I dont think so.
And no, that is NOT the video I am speaking of, go reread stlouisans comments to you.
You know, I could say of you, that you thought the MO twang was a southern accent because you came from Wisconsin, I see no proof of your theory whatsoever.
As stlouisan said, there are old videos, etc out there.
Go find them.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,440 posts, read 31,756,105 times
Reputation: 15560
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
First off, my grandpa barely spoke English as far as many were concerned (Thats how thick his accent was), and he was a 4th generation immigrant from Wales. That side of the family lived in the Baton Rouge area for about 50 years before coming to Southeast Missouri. You can take it to the bank that everyone in the family knew he had an accent.

South Midland is a midland dialect, meaning it is tied more closely to the Midland (Midwest) than the South. While I take the borders of dialect maps with a grain of salt sometimes (Mainly due to the fact that they say I should have the same dialect as someone from Omaha, Nebraska ), I have never seen ANY evidence that southern accents were spoken in northern Missouri after the Civil War.
Lol, you can still hear traces of German accents in Ste Genevieve to this day in the older folks, so that blows jturs theory about grandparents out of the water.
My grandmother had a classic southern accent, my grandfather had a classic rural Arkansas accent.
My grandparents from St Louis had traces of German accents, they lived their entire lives on the south side of St Louis.
My husbands mother is from northern MO, I just called her to hear her voice......no trace of a southern accent whatsoever, she said the whole idea of northern MO folk having southern accents is ridiculous.
Gotta love her, still feisty at 90.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,336,032 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
As stlouisan said, there are old videos, etc out there.
Go find them.
No. Present your own supporting citations if you think you have any.
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