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Old 05-17-2012, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,065,639 times
Reputation: 1028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
I've made a quick map of Maryland's cultural similarities to other areas.



Yellow leans towards the southeast Pennsylvania area. While here are major differences between the areas, Baltimore is far more Philadelphia than it is DC or Richmond.
Blue is most like Delaware, for reasons that are fairly obvious to me.
Red is most like the coastal areas of Virginia and northeast North Carolina. However, people here feel quite at home in rural Delaware too.
Black is generic suburbia and can be found all over. It's transplant dominated. Long ago I would place this in the yellow but now it is the clear "nemesis region" of the others.
Purple is most like West Virginia.
Brown is Annapolis , which is a definite mush.
I've seen this map drawn before, and while I think at a basic level it's good, I have problems with the brown area being restricted to just Annapolis. Cultural transitions don't happen in the blink of an eye...they are gradual. i'm not sure I would call the Chesapeake Bay area the south...historically i certainly would, but all the tourism has definitely shifted its identity, not to mention. The brown definitely is not restricted to Annapolis. It definitely encompasses some parts of the Eastern Shore and the northern Chesapeake Bay area. That said, it doesn't encompass all of them. Salisbury, for example, is certainly southern. Most of Maryland really can't be called truly southern anymore. I certainly didn't feel like culturally I was in Virginia or North Carolina in the northern areas of the Chesapeake. While I cannot confirm or deny this, some people have indicated to me that southern Jersey has a lot in common with eastern delaware and maryland's eastern shore. I am not in denial...I have actually heard this said. I am not supporting it or denying it.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:00 PM
 
Location: PG County, MD
581 posts, read 962,535 times
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I was a bit iffy on the brown and wasn't sure what to do with it. I've always had trouble placing it and would agree with expanding the region but I'm not sure to where, everywhere along the Maryland Chesapeake has a bit of Annapolis so perhaps it is the center of a typically Maryland region. Also I agree that these regions are more gradual but I cannot represent that well. I cannot confirm or deny the similarity of Southern Jersey either, my only experience with Jersey is Trenton, which was very un-Maryland.

I agree, most of Maryland cannot be called southern anymore, however I don't feel as though most can be called northern. For me Maryland was always defined more by maritime and Appalachian culture than by northern and southern culture and others I know feel the same way.

I really hate placing cultural borders because as you said, they're gradual. But if I had to place a north / south divide it wouldn't be the Potomac or the Mason Dixon. It would probably be the Bay Bridge or thereabouts. While there is far more of a culture difference crossing the Mason-Dixon or going into inland Virginia than there is going past Annapolis, I don't think that difference is caused primarily by a clash of northern and southern culture.

Regardless of our disagreements on this matter, I must commend you for obviously putting thought into this. Too many are those who simply say "Maryland is northern/southern lol" and leave it at that.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,065,639 times
Reputation: 1028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
I was a bit iffy on the brown and wasn't sure what to do with it. I've always had trouble placing it and would agree with expanding the region but I'm not sure to where, everywhere along the Maryland Chesapeake has a bit of Annapolis so perhaps it is the center of a typically Maryland region. Also I agree that these regions are more gradual but I cannot represent that well. I cannot confirm or deny the similarity of Southern Jersey either, my only experience with Jersey is Trenton, which was very un-Maryland.

I agree, most of Maryland cannot be called southern anymore, however I don't feel as though most can be called northern. For me Maryland was always defined more by maritime and Appalachian culture than by northern and southern culture and others I know feel the same way.

I really hate placing cultural borders because as you said, they're gradual. But if I had to place a north / south divide it wouldn't be the Potomac or the Mason Dixon. It would probably be the Bay Bridge or thereabouts. While there is far more of a culture difference crossing the Mason-Dixon or going into inland Virginia than there is going past Annapolis, I don't think that difference is caused primarily by a clash of northern and southern culture.

Regardless of our disagreements on this matter, I must commend you for obviously putting thought into this. Too many are those who simply say "Maryland is northern/southern lol" and leave it at that.
I've never noticed that large of a difference crossing the MD-PA border...i see a bigger difference crossing roughly U.S. 50 to be honest. Baltimore and D.C., Northern Virginia, and Western Maryland actually remind me the most of southern Pennsylvania. I definitiely think that Baltimore and D.C. remind me more of Philadelphia as far as the environment and culture. I guess we don't share the same sentiments, but to each his own i suppose in this case.
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 1,155,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
^ nah, you cant trust the census for everything. Maryland & Delaware aren't in the South, and most people in those states dont consider themselves Southerners.
Yeah... no... you need to spend some time real time on the Eastern Shore and Southern Maryland. These areas compose nearly half of the land area of the state and are clearly Southern. There's not much of an argument to it.

The southeastern Baltimore suburbs of Dundalk, Essex, Middle River, and Bowleys Quarters (named after Daniel Bowley's slave quarters in the area) also have a noticeable Southern taste combined with Rust Belt industry which makes for an interesting combo - and happens to be my place of residence.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Long Island
130 posts, read 383,545 times
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Long Island, New York
North
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 5,065,639 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDguy99 View Post
Yeah... no... you need to spend some time real time on the Eastern Shore and Southern Maryland. These areas compose nearly half of the land area of the state and are clearly Southern. There's not much of an argument to it.

The southeastern Baltimore suburbs of Dundalk, Essex, Middle River, and Bowleys Quarters (named after Daniel Bowley's slave quarters in the area) also have a noticeable Southern taste combined with Rust Belt industry which makes for an interesting combo - and happens to be my place of residence.
My experience and feedback from acquaintances about these areas suggests slightly otherwise...if both these areas are clearly southern, then we would expect this trend to continue well into Pennsylvania. These areas today are more transition zones then anything else, although they do have strong southern influences. i've been to Baltimore several times...none of my experience there reminded me of Richmond or Charlotte.
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Old 05-18-2012, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Edgemere, Maryland
501 posts, read 1,155,674 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
My experience and feedback from acquaintances about these areas suggests slightly otherwise...if both these areas are clearly southern, then we would expect this trend to continue well into Pennsylvania. These areas today are more transition zones then anything else, although they do have strong southern influences. i've been to Baltimore several times...none of my experience there reminded me of Richmond or Charlotte.
Wonderful, but perhaps you ought to re-read. I am not talking about the state of MD as a whole or Baltimore. The DC suburbs are generic suburbia, Western MD leans Northern Appalachian, Baltimore is Mid-Atlantic, with many Northeastern attributes and a few Southern.... but I said SOUTHERN MARYLAND and the EASTERN SHORE are undeniably Southern. And, they are. There is no real debate on that front. The list of present day cultural, environmental and historical attributes swing far and solidly into the Southern column. There is nary a Northern attribute in these two regions of the state.

I also said a couple of southeastern Baltimore suburbs have some southern influence with a Rust Belt character, and they do - most of the population came during the 1940s from rural Southern Appalachia to work in the steel mills. I know what I am talking about from 40 + years living in the State of Maryland, travels to the South and years living in the NYC area (the true Northeast).
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Old 05-18-2012, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Cumberland County, NJ
8,631 posts, read 12,926,108 times
Reputation: 5766
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshe95girl View Post
You know, the last 2 paragraphs of your post are sooooooo true.
I honestly think people confuse rural with southern.
Strange
.
I think Southern Maryland is a great example of that for the most part.
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Silver Springs, FL
23,410 posts, read 36,838,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I think Southern Maryland is a great example of that for the most part.
So is Missouri, south of the Missouri River. :/
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:25 PM
 
Location: PG County, MD
581 posts, read 962,535 times
Reputation: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I think Southern Maryland is a great example of that for the most part.
No. For reasons so incredibly obvious I won't even waste my time explaining. It's a clearly upper southern culture with strong marine influences.

Last edited by Tezcatlipoca; 05-18-2012 at 08:04 PM..
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