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City limits are a joke, especially when you hear Jax bigger than San Fran, and the list could go on and on. Only cities with penis envy bloat their city limits to prove they want to be bigger than actuality. Excellent case is Charlotte, Jax, Houston, etc.
Core cities have their place, suburbs have theirs and both are valid depending on the subject at hand. The big picture for most people would be the core city. Take Cleveland for example, who chooses the area because of Solon? Who's been dying to live in Cleveland Heights since they were kids and couldn't wait to move? No one! That person wants to move to Cleveland. Now once they get there, they may choose Solon or Cleveland Heights but that's after they've chosen the core city first. They very well may choose to live in Cleveland proper but the point being, the core city is the determining factor and which locale to pay taxes in is secondary.
In its truest sense, a metro area is a cluster of separate municipalities that share common local travel arteries primarily focused around employment with the largest city being designated as the core city in the area. Nothing magical or phenomenal about it, just commonality. With that being said, on a local level, it matters where you live. Is a suburban cook county resident a Chicagoian? No, nor will you find too many actual Chicagoians consider them to be because they do not physically live within city limits. They may work there, but they do not live there and pay taxes to the city. Only when you are in other areas outside of your own is when you bring out the whole MSA level. A person living in Beech Grove, will say they live in Beech Grove when in their respective area. Only when travelling to some other place (ex: Atlanta, Chicago, etc.) will that person say they live in Indianapolis or around Indianapolis or interject Indianapolis is some way shape or form with regards to locale simply because it's the core city and there's nationwide familiarity with our largest core cities and others then get a sense of where that person is talking about geographically.
Comparing core cities is apples to apples on the surface. You have however many people you have. Your boundaries are your boundaries. Just like MSAs are of differing sizes, so are cities and it's not fair to take into account geographical sizes between cities and not take into account geographical sizes of MSAs. Case in point, STL MSA is over 8k sq miles (second in the midwest only to Chicago in geographical size) while an area like Milwaukee is 2300k give or take which is a vast difference. You have what you have, it is what it is and you have however many people you have. What determines that size of living in the city or a suburb is strictly at the local level in terms of politics, crime, education, pollution, geography that will affect each city differently. Detroit's urban blight affects the entire city of Detroit. Indianapolis's urban blight only affects parts of Center Township. While it shrinks in population in part because of it, a city like Indianapolis still grows because it's not widespread, it's more localized so while Center Township can lose people, the other townships continue to gain people so the city continues to grow in population. On that same tangent, STL and SanFran are roughly the same size land wise so why does one grow and the other shrink? Who knows but on the local level, crime in STL and crime in SanFran are on two different levels. Granted Hunters Point is probably one of the worst places you can go but is it enough to deter other SanFrans from living there with the Ocean, the bay, the weather, horrendous traffic into and out of the city as compared to living in and around STL proper? Probably not. You can also argue that SanFran is more diverse and it may or may not be a contributing factor. Either way, things that effect how a core city grows/shrinks is strictly local and what may effect one locale isn't necessarily going to effect the next one in the exact same way so it does make that a somewhat apples to oranges comparison once you factor in local issues.
Your consolidated cities (Indianapolis, Nashville, Jax) have been consolidated since 1967-68 as well as your quasi-consolidated cities (Miami-Dade, Denver). Indianapolis is just as as landlocked as STL and has been since 1968. Using that is the equivalent of people constantly bashing Cleveland for its river catching on fire. It's just been too long to be a factor at this point in time, yet still continues to grow. I used this as an example once when compared to Indianapolis with a debater from Detroit. When Detroit had 1.6 million people in 167 sq miles, physical size wasn't a problem. When Detroit had 1 million people and Indianapolis didn't in 167 sq miles, size wasn't a problem. Even When Detroit dropped to 867k people, still more than Indianapolis, 167 sq miles wasn't a problem. Now that Detroit is sitting at 767k or so people and Indianapolis has jumped to 823k people, Indianapolis being 360 sq miles is now somehow the problem since Detroit is smaller. Fact is, if it wasn't a problem when Detroit was larger, it's not a problem now that Detroit is smaller. It's the other underlying issues between the two cities, not the amount of space they take up.
Only cities with penis envy bloat their city limits to prove they want to be bigger than actuality.
So, I guess Philadelphia and New York has the most dick envy of them all. They were the first ones to do it...in 1864 and 1898, respectively.
...
I don't get how people say it's cheating or whatever when a city merges or annexes territory. Do people not realize that all cities started off as small villages at one point that grew over time?
For all the empty land Jacksonville has right now...in 50 years, there could be 2-3 million people living inside city limits.
Also, annexation and consolidation are not the same thing. A consolidated city cannot annex any additional territory and stays in one county, while annexation can continue into perpetuity (theoretically) and into many different counties.
I mean, it's insane what people come up with on here. Someone actually said on another thread that a city is "authentic" if it has small boundaries surrounded by endless suburbs, like St. Louis or something...come on, man. From another point of view, I'd say that cities that are "locked in" like that didn't plan ahead well enough (as far as regional cooperation is concerned).
You know, the only folks who say "city limits are a joke" are those who either live in city centers that have been rapidly/steadily shrinking for a while or fairweather suburbanites who want to claim the good things about a city center but without the bad things.
Both types **** me off quite frankly.
(yeah, let the tomato-throwing begin, I can make myself some homemade ketchup with them).
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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This is a big issue here in Kentucky. As someone who enjoys population statistics it drives me nuts at the ignorance you hear from people and even the media.
In the 2000 census Louisville, the core of by far the state's largest metro area, which slightly eclipsed in population by Lexington, which anchors the state's second largest metro area (about half the size of L'ville's). Louisville then implemented (after approval by voters) a merger with most urban areas in Jefferson County outside the city limits to regain the top spot. I know Lexingtonians who will still argue til they are blue in the face that their city is larger then Louisville. Just as crazy are Louisvillians who suddenly think their city is bigger than Cincinnati or Atlanta.
Even crazier is the hodge podge of little suburban cities in far Northern Kentucky, which have a combined population slightly larger than Lexington (350,000). You could argue it is as important as Louisville, being home to a larger airport, Newport Aquarium, etc; but it is totally overlooked by most people in the state because the largest single city there is only 5th in population in the state.
I think when we look at them singularly, a lot of methods of measuring a city's relative "size" are flawed or misleading. City proper population, metro population, combined metro population, urban area population, population density, city and metro GDP, airport traffic & tourism, and my personal favorite, skyline.
Separately, these don't really tell the whole story. Combining a number of these measures together, and you get a better idea.
Cities like Houston, Jacksonville, Oklahoma City, and San Antonio are perfect examples of why comparing only city limits is just a flawed merit when trying to compare two cities in terms of population.
Phoenix
Houston Dallas
Jacksonville
San Diego
Columbus
Indianapolis
These cities in particular have a large % of their metro population in the city, are have a population that is close to or larger than a comparable or, often, larger city.
That couldn't be farther from the truth. Dallas City proper at 1,197,816 is only 18.8% of the MSA's 6,371,773 (2010). It's the 4th largest MSA but only the 9th largest city.
That couldn't be farther from the truth. Dallas City proper at 1,197,816 is only 18.8% of the MSA's 6,371,773 (2010). It's the 4th largest MSA but only the 9th largest city.
I wouldn't put Dallas near the top of the list but having a chunk of its city limits completely separated from the main city speaks volume as to why comparing city limits is so flawed.
Phoenix
Houston
Dallas
Jacksonville
San Diego
Columbus
Indianapolis
These cities in particular have a large % of their metro population in the city, are have a population that is close to or larger than a comparable or, often, larger city.
Where does that leave New York then, since it has a higher city dweller to suburb dweller ratio than all of these cities except for Jacksonville?
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