Which Midwestern state is most influenced by the South? (estate, metro)

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by steel03

What I'm saying is that while there may be places in Missouri that are much more Southern than anywhere in Kansas, there are also quite a few places in Missouri that are much more Northern than Kansas. Missouri transitions from definitely Northern to definitely Southern, but Kansas is a blend all the way through.

Have to disagree here...the transition zone in Missouri doesn't start until you are south of KC and St. Louis. Most of Kansas is really not what I'd call a blend. Half of it could be considered undebatably Midwestern, half of it could be considered transition zone. If what you were saying was true, STL and KC would be hard to argue as truly Midwestern, and that's just not the case.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by davidals

Missouri, at least the southern half.

Likewise for southern Illinois; maybe southern Indiana, though I think there's more of a blend there.

SE Ohio IMO has more of an Appalachian influence.

Elsewhere, Texas - depending on where you are in Texas - seems to show some influence from everywhere else: the Deep South and especially Louisiana (East Texas), the Plains or Midwest (the Panhandle and maybe some of the Red River Valley), the Southwest (El Paso, and most areas west of a line from Del Rio to about Midland-Odessa), and Mexico (the lower Rio Grande Valley). Plus the tropical nature of the immediate Gulf Coast, from Houston/Galveston south, which pretty much recalls most other tropical/subtropical coastal regions of the US to some degree.

The southern half of Missouri is not entirely southern...the lower quarter of the state is southern, the upper quarter of the southern half is a blend.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by GraniteStater

What is wrong with emulating Texas? According to most polling, social conservatism is offputting to many potential voters in the political arena and appeals most to wedge issue voters. Texas is ranked nearly dead last in educational attainment, has serious issues with illegal immigration, and a whole host of other issues. Rick Perry didn't help with the stereotypes for those less familiar with Texas either.

"I'm not so sure Kansas wants to progress like a typical Midwestern state. Apparently they want to progress the Southern way, which I guess Kansas may be becoming more Southern after all."

The simple response to this is if the JOCO demographics were more prevalent in other parts of the state in terms of educational attainment, KS would be more politically alligned like MN than TX. (Perhaps not as liberal as MN, but definitely not as conservative). MN has a high educational attainment and a high median household income and tends to have politics that are far more moderate compared to states to the southwest of it. KS has all of its eggs in the JOCO basket and the college towns that are propping the state up. The rest of the state is at or well below average for educational attainment (primarily due to the economic policies of mass production corporate agriculture in the southwest counties in the state).

Also the heating up of the climate sure DOES NOT do Kansas any good at all, and the heat there is definitely becoming very much like Texas. Did you see the 115F air temperature recorded in Hill City, KS this week? Yikes! This must be the "new normal."

As if MN is the bar to which Midwest standards are set...KS in terms of politics, like all the Great Plains states, is conservative. And please...this weather is abnormal for the entire U.S....it's supposed to get above 100 as far north as the Great Lakes. Most of Kansas is more like Nebraska than anyplace else from my experiences. All of these states are the Midwest...people are attempting to take it a step further from the question in this thread.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by steel03

I spent a bit of time in Topeka this winter, and I've been through Wichita and KCKS several times. Kansas to me feels like Nebraska if it were in the South. Or maybe I'd call it a cross between Oklahoma/Texas and Nebraska. It's not the same Southern culture you'd find in Cincinnati or Evansville, but I'd still say it's more across-the-board Southern than Missouri or Indiana. Northern Indiana feels nothing like any part of the South to me (maaaaybe some parts of Kentucky, but that's a stretch), and while Missouri definitely has the culture, KCMO feels like Omaha on steroids and St. Louis feels a bit like St. Paul or even Chicago. KCKS has some of that, but Wichita and Topeka don't align well with much else in the Midwest, as far as I can tell.
So I might call it a tossup between Missouri and Kansas, actually.

Kansas is NOT the south. If you honestly believe that, you've never been to the south. Southern speech patterns, culture, etc. are not very prominent in the majority of Kansas. Does it have southern influences? Yes...but the Midwestern ones far outweigh the southern ones. Neither KS or MO are influenced enough by the south to the point where I'd say they can't be the Midwest...every state in this poll is influenced by the south, but none to the point where calling them "not Midwestern as an overall state" makes any sense. This thread is a bomb waiting to go off...I knew it from the get-go when I first saw it.

[CookieSkoon]

Missouri for certain! I'm sorry but if you think otherwise you're just wrong. Of all the lower Midwest states, Missouri is historically and culturally the most southern of them.

Ohio is the least southern like on this list. Southeast Ohio bears similarities to western/northern West Virginia, who's southerness is debatable anyhow.

Second place is Indiana. Great lakes folks tend to think of anything south of Indianapolis as southern. While that simply isn't true, you can see why they would think so. Southern Indiana does have some more typically southern traits. But in the grand scheme, it's still northern.

All in all, the only Midwestern state with truly southern vibes is Missouri. And that's mainly because of the way it was settled, and the bootheel/Arkansas border region.

[steel03]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Kansas is NOT the south. If you honestly believe that, you've never been to the south. Southern speech patterns, culture, etc. are not very prominent in the majority of Kansas. Does it have southern influences? Yes...but the Midwestern ones far outweigh the southern ones. Neither KS or MO are influenced enough by the south to the point where I'd say they can't be the Midwest...every state in this poll is influenced by the south, but none to the point where calling them "not Midwestern as an overall state" makes any sense. This thread is a bomb waiting to go off...I knew it from the get-go when I first saw it.

I never said I think Kansas is Southern. That's not the point of this thread, and that's not what I said. I'm not sure why you put "not Midwestern as an overall state" in quotes, because I never wrote that, and if I implied it, it's not what I meant at all. Incidentally, I have family in Dallas and usually stay in Wichita on the way to see them, and I've spent considerable time in New Orleans, Branson area, Kansas City, and St. Louis.

Have to disagree here...the transition zone in Missouri doesn't start until you are south of KC and St. Louis. Most of Kansas is really not what I'd call a blend. Half of it could be considered undebatably Midwestern, half of it could be considered transition zone. If what you were saying was true, STL and KC would be hard to argue as truly Midwestern, and that's just not the case.

Again, I'm pretty sure you've misunderstood. You disagree because you think the transition zone in Missouri doesn't start until south of KC and St. Louis? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't understand why you think that according to my logic, St. Louis and KC aren't Midwestern. I think they're both thoroughly Northern cities - St. Louis is more Eastern and KC is more Great Plains, but neither is at all Southern.
Kansas is enough different from everything around it that I consider it a blend of Northern and Southern culture. Wichita and Topeka certainly are more culturally Southern than Omaha and Lincoln, but they're also more culturally northern than OKC and Tulsa. There's nothing in Kansas as absolutely culturally Southern as southern Missouri, but there's also nothing in Kansas as absolutely culturally Northern as St. Louis. Transition vs. blend.

[danielj72]

Missouri is by far the most southern influenced of all midwest states. People in Missouri have a southern accent, and southern Mo is pure dixie. Northern Missouri is the only part that is more midwestern, as central Mo is a transition. The state was a slave state and it had both a confederate and union goverment. The union goverment however was put in place after a northern invasion of the state. Even Saint Louis was iffy in its support of the north, so historically the state is more southern. Even today a drive along I-70(outside St Louis) you can detect a southern influence in the accents. I am from Mi however so I have an upper midwest outlook on this. The history of Mo being southern leaning is undeniable.

[stlouisan]

Originally Posted by steel03

I never said I think Kansas is Southern. That's not the point of this thread, and that's not what I said. I'm not sure why you put "not Midwestern as an overall state" in quotes, because I never wrote that, and if I implied it, it's not what I meant at all. Incidentally, I have family in Dallas and usually stay in Wichita on the way to see them, and I've spent considerable time in New Orleans, Branson area, Kansas City, and St. Louis.


Again, I'm pretty sure you've misunderstood. You disagree because you think the transition zone in Missouri doesn't start until south of KC and St. Louis? Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't understand why you think that according to my logic, St. Louis and KC aren't Midwestern. I think they're both thoroughly Northern cities - St. Louis is more Eastern and KC is more Great Plains, but neither is at all Southern.
Kansas is enough different from everything around it that I consider it a blend of Northern and Southern culture. Wichita and Topeka certainly are more culturally Southern than Omaha and Lincoln, but they're also more culturally northern than OKC and Tulsa. There's nothing in Kansas as absolutely culturally Southern as southern Missouri, but there's also nothing in Kansas as absolutely culturally Northern as St. Louis. Transition vs. blend.

That may be true, but at least 50% of Kansas is decidedly "Northern." The rest is transition. To call it a blend to me implies a homogenous mixture, which most of Kansas really isn't, nor is most of Missouri. Transition=more Northern at one end, more southern at the other.

[MOKAN]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Being working class and having a large Black population doesn't make a place southern. Gary,IN is majority Black and has been a working class city, and it isn't southern. Same for Cleveland,OH;Detroit,MI;Milwaukee,WI.

I think what might make Kansas City southern is the culture of barbecue and blues music, similar to what Memphis has.

I know. That's what I just said.

And I was talking about Kansas City, KS, which while not well-known, is actually a distinctive place separate from Kansas City, MO. I agree though about the Southern attributes you mentioned that concern KCMO.

[Colts]

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

Great lakes folks tend to think of anything south of Indianapolis as southern.

That's not necessarily true. I'm from Michigan, and while there are more southern traits closer to the Oho River, I don't know anyone who thinks of the Cincinnati area as being "southern," for instance.

Unless you're specifically talking about southern Indiana as opposed to southern Ohio and southern Illinois, and as I said earlier that logic wouldn't work because all three were founded the same way.