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Likewise for southern Illinois; maybe southern Indiana, though I think there's more of a blend there.
SE Ohio IMO has more of an Appalachian influence.
Elsewhere, Texas - depending on where you are in Texas - seems to show some influence from everywhere else: the Deep South and especially Louisiana (East Texas), the Plains or Midwest (the Panhandle and maybe some of the Red River Valley), the Southwest (El Paso, and most areas west of a line from Del Rio to about Midland-Odessa), and Mexico (the lower Rio Grande Valley). Plus the tropical nature of the immediate Gulf Coast, from Houston/Galveston south, which pretty much recalls most other tropical/subtropical coastal regions of the US to some degree.
I think I agree with your theory in your last paragraph. But at least JoCo exists to retain a lot of the folks who would otherwise leave altogether.
Kathleen Sebelius, a Democrat and governor elected prior to Brownback, must be just an anomaly in your eyes. By the way, Wisconsin elected Scott Walker.
I'm not so sure Kansas wants to progress like a typical Midwestern state. Apparently they want to progress the Southern way, which I guess Kansas may be becoming more Southern after all. If Kansas wants to go right-wing like, say, Texas, what is wrong with that?
What is wrong with emulating Texas? According to most polling, social conservatism is offputting to many potential voters in the political arena and appeals most to wedge issue voters. Texas is ranked nearly dead last in educational attainment, has serious issues with illegal immigration, and a whole host of other issues. Rick Perry didn't help with the stereotypes for those less familiar with Texas either.
"I'm not so sure Kansas wants to progress like a typical Midwestern state. Apparently they want to progress the Southern way, which I guess Kansas may be becoming more Southern after all."
The simple response to this is if the JOCO demographics were more prevalent in other parts of the state in terms of educational attainment, KS would be more politically alligned like MN than TX. (Perhaps not as liberal as MN, but definitely not as conservative). MN has a high educational attainment and a high median household income and tends to have politics that are far more moderate compared to states to the southwest of it. KS has all of its eggs in the JOCO basket and the college towns that are propping the state up. The rest of the state is at or well below average for educational attainment (primarily due to the economic policies of mass production corporate agriculture in the southwest counties in the state).
Also the heating up of the climate sure DOES NOT do Kansas any good at all, and the heat there is definitely becoming very much like Texas. Did you see the 115F air temperature recorded in Hill City, KS this week? Yikes! This must be the "new normal."
I spent a bit of time in Topeka this winter, and I've been through Wichita and KCKS several times. Kansas to me feels like Nebraska if it were in the South. Or maybe I'd call it a cross between Oklahoma/Texas and Nebraska. It's not the same Southern culture you'd find in Cincinnati or Evansville, but I'd still say it's more across-the-board Southern than Missouri or Indiana. Northern Indiana feels nothing like any part of the South to me (maaaaybe some parts of Kentucky, but that's a stretch), and while Missouri definitely has the culture, KCMO feels like Omaha on steroids and St. Louis feels a bit like St. Paul or even Chicago. KCKS has some of that, but Wichita and Topeka don't align well with much else in the Midwest, as far as I can tell.
So I might call it a tossup between Missouri and Kansas, actually.
I spent a bit of time in Topeka this winter, and I've been through Wichita and KCKS several times. Kansas to me feels like Nebraska if it were in the South. Or maybe I'd call it a cross between Oklahoma/Texas and Nebraska. It's not the same Southern culture you'd find in Cincinnati or Evansville, but I'd still say it's more across-the-board Southern than Missouri or Indiana. Northern Indiana feels nothing like any part of the South to me (maaaaybe some parts of Kentucky, but that's a stretch), and while Missouri definitely has the culture, KCMO feels like Omaha on steroids and St. Louis feels a bit like St. Paul or even Chicago. KCKS has some of that, but Wichita and Topeka don't align well with much else in the Midwest, as far as I can tell.
So I might call it a tossup between Missouri and Kansas, actually.
Kansas is more "across-the-board southern" than Missouri? Sorry I disagree. As I stated before out of the entire list Missouri is the only state that has about 20% of it's territory being southern in every sense of the word. Kansas has no part of its state that is as southern as the Bootheel or even the Ozarks really, and the Ozarks are a mixed bag. Illinois is southern within about 30 miles of the Ohio River. Indiana I'm not so sure about but I have reason to believe that there are some counties that are more like Kentucky than the rest of the state.
St. Louis is the only part of Missouri that I would consider more "Northern" than anywhere in Kansas.
I spent a bit of time in Topeka this winter, and I've been through Wichita and KCKS several times. Kansas to me feels like Nebraska if it were in the South. Or maybe I'd call it a cross between Oklahoma/Texas and Nebraska. It's not the same Southern culture you'd find in Cincinnati or Evansville, but I'd still say it's more across-the-board Southern than Missouri or Indiana. Northern Indiana feels nothing like any part of the South to me (maaaaybe some parts of Kentucky, but that's a stretch), and while Missouri definitely has the culture, KCMO feels like Omaha on steroids and St. Louis feels a bit like St. Paul or even Chicago. KCKS has some of that, but Wichita and Topeka don't align well with much else in the Midwest, as far as I can tell.
So I might call it a tossup between Missouri and Kansas, actually.
About Kansas. I'm not that familiar with Wichita, honestly. But cities like Topeka, Kansas City, and Leavenworth do strike me as being different somehow. I've wondered if what I've noticed is Southern influence, but I'm just not experienced or traveled enough to know for sure. It might just be that the towns I mentioned are blue collar and have black people, which doesn't necessarily make them Southern because Dayton, OH, for example, isn't Southern. Nor are the many similar cities strewn across the North. So it would have to be something beyond the qualities mentioned that would make those Kansas cities any more Southern than the rest.
Wichita may have more Southern influence, but does it have as much as Springfield, MO? Tulsa is usually considered Southern. Is OKC? If so, what characteristics does Wichita share with Tulsa or OKC that are Southern? I think those are some good questions, but ones for which I don't know the answers.
I do know that Kansas has a strong anti-Southern history and Northern alliance. Kansas was where the supposed first black university west of the Mississppi was located, Western University, and there's a ton of well-known civil-war era history along the Missouri-Kansas border, even in Kansas City with the underground railroad where slaves were ferried across the Missouri River to be freed.
What is wrong with emulating Texas? According to most polling, social conservatism is offputting to many potential voters in the political arena and appeals most to wedge issue voters. Texas is ranked nearly dead last in educational attainment, has serious issues with illegal immigration, and a whole host of other issues. Rick Perry didn't help with the stereotypes for those less familiar with Texas either.
"I'm not so sure Kansas wants to progress like a typical Midwestern state. Apparently they want to progress the Southern way, which I guess Kansas may be becoming more Southern after all."
The simple response to this is if the JOCO demographics were more prevalent in other parts of the state in terms of educational attainment, KS would be more politically alligned like MN than TX. (Perhaps not as liberal as MN, but definitely not as conservative). MN has a high educational attainment and a high median household income and tends to have politics that are far more moderate compared to states to the southwest of it. KS has all of its eggs in the JOCO basket and the college towns that are propping the state up. The rest of the state is at or well below average for educational attainment (primarily due to the economic policies of mass production corporate agriculture in the southwest counties in the state).
Also the heating up of the climate sure DOES NOT do Kansas any good at all, and the heat there is definitely becoming very much like Texas. Did you see the 115F air temperature recorded in Hill City, KS this week? Yikes! This must be the "new normal."
Isn't Texas's low educational problem largely tied to immigration and being on the Mexican border? I looked up the most uneducated cities and they're all predominantly (like completely) Mexican/Hispanic cities, most being in Texas and California. Most are smaller towns, but still. My point was that Texas has grown tremendously due to a right-wing political climate. What better way to provide the less or uneducated jobs than to be luring of large-scale economic engines (corporations) that provide spin-off economic activity (hotels, restaurants, services) as well as providing incentive for manufacturing operations to set up shop? Where did all those huge skyscrapers come from in Texas's cities? You complain about illegal immigration, but then left-wing politics cater to and incentivize it.
Why would you want Kansas to be culturally more liberal if they don't want to be? I don't get it. Texas is conservative, but it's still grown and attracted highly-educated people. People go where the jobs are. So what if SW KS is fulfilling a less desirable economic activity? What does that have to do with anything? At least it's economic activity and in Kansas. As for Wichita and Topeka, how do you create a white-collar highly-educated utopia out of blue-collar towns? What's wrong with creating a political environment that would hopefully bring in manufacturing? If the midwest is so great, why are places like Dayton struggling?
It seems to me that white-collar, highly-educated utopias and clustering all in one place is causing problems in and of itself. Why should any place be skewed highly-educated? If those companies and grads were spread out more evenly, the spin-off activity from their economic engines would benefit more people.
Kansas is more "across-the-board southern" than Missouri? Sorry I disagree. As I stated before out of the entire list Missouri is the only state that has about 20% of it's territory being southern in every sense of the word. Kansas has no part of its state that is as southern as the Bootheel or even the Ozarks really, and the Ozarks are a mixed bag. Illinois is southern within about 30 miles of the Ohio River. Indiana I'm not so sure about but I have reason to believe that there are some counties that are more like Kentucky than the rest of the state.
St. Louis is the only part of Missouri that I would consider more "Northern" than anywhere in Kansas.
What I'm saying is that while there may be places in Missouri that are much more Southern than anywhere in Kansas, there are also quite a few places in Missouri that are much more Northern than Kansas. Missouri transitions from definitely Northern to definitely Southern, but Kansas is a blend all the way through.
About Kansas. I'm not that familiar with Wichita, honestly. But cities like Topeka, Kansas City, and Leavenworth do strike me as being different somehow. I've wondered if what I've noticed is Southern influence, but I'm just not experienced or traveled enough to know for sure. It might just be that the towns I mentioned are blue collar and have black people, which doesn't necessarily make them Southern because Dayton, OH, for example, isn't Southern. Nor are the many similar cities strewn across the North. So it would have to be something beyond the qualities mentioned that would make those Kansas cities any more Southern than the rest.
Wichita may have more Southern influence, but does it have as much as Springfield, MO? Tulsa is usually considered Southern. Is OKC? If so, what characteristics does Wichita share with Tulsa or OKC that are Southern? I think those are some good questions, but ones for which I don't know the answers.
I do know that Kansas has a strong anti-Southern history and Northern alliance. Kansas was where the supposed first black university west of the Mississppi was located, Western University, and there's a ton of well-known civil-war era history along the Missouri-Kansas border, even in Kansas City with the underground railroad where slaves were ferried across the Missouri River to be freed.
Being working class and having a large Black population doesn't make a place southern. Gary,IN is majority Black and has been a working class city, and it isn't southern. Same for Cleveland,OH;Detroit,MI;Milwaukee,WI.
I think what might make Kansas City southern is the culture of barbecue and blues music, similar to what Memphis has.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by GraniteStater
Kansas is in the Bible Belt and its governor is Sam Brownback. I consider those southern-like "influences." An individual like Brownback would not be given the time of day in nearly any northern state.
Kansas is not the south. None of the states in these poll are the south...the question was which states had the most southern influences, not which of these states are southern.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Being working class and having a large Black population doesn't make a place southern. Gary,IN is majority Black and has been a working class city, and it isn't southern. Same for Cleveland,OH;Detroit,MI;Milwaukee,WI.
I think what might make Kansas City southern is the culture of barbecue and blues music, similar to what Memphis has.
Chicago and Detroit have that same culture, as do St. Louis and Omaha Kansas City is not the south. It was brought up during the Great Migration. Ultimately, Chicago, Detroit, Omaha, Kansas City, and St. Louis all drew on the jazz/blues/bbq element of the Great Migration.
Last edited by stlouisan; 07-01-2012 at 03:08 PM..
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Kansas City is not the south. It was brought up during the Great Migration. Ultimately, Chicago, Detroit, Omaha, Kansas City, and St. Louis all drew on the jazz/blues/bbq element of the Great Migration.
