U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-16-2012, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,141,440 times
Reputation: 809

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
That's absolutely untrue.

I am from northern New Jersey, fifth generation here. We pronounce the Rs at the end of our words. The exception would be a few places close to New York City, such as Jersey City. Many New Yorkers do not pronounce the R, nor do some New Englanders. Now I live in Central Jersey, and people here pronounce their Rs as well.
That's because New Jersey speaks with the mid-Atlantic dialect (or even a standard American dialect for many).

Quote:
And go a little further south and you can hear the Philly accent having that odd vowel sound for O that I haven't heard anywhere else.

(To others, people from Philadelphia, and by extension, southern NJ, say "foon" for "phone" and "hoom" for "home", etc.)
That's a pretty poor description of the sound, but I'm not sure if you can describe the Philadelphia "O" without the IPA, though.

I didn't say the Philadelphia accent was identical or even that similar to standard American. I just said that it was the ancestor. Although, it would be more accurate to say that it is the most closely related since the Philadelphia accent has changed over the years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-16-2012, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,141,440 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
Its weird because you can hear a good amount of people not pronounce there Rs in Philly, specifically in South Philly and parts of South Jersey.
That's pretty cool, but he's definitely a rhotic speaker. The big thing is the intervocalic r's since that's really hard to learn if you don't grow up doing it.

Btw, I'm only talking about white-American dialects.

If you want to understand the Philadelphia accent on an academic level, you should check out the work of William Labov. Here's a short video where he talks about linguistic change:
Language Change in Philadelphia - YouTube

Here's a better one (the sound is way off, though):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W68VaOuY6ew

And this may be interesting to some: http://www.atlas.mouton-content.com/

Last edited by pgm123; 07-16-2012 at 09:26 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2012, 10:08 PM
 
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,683 posts, read 45,352,353 times
Reputation: 11862
^ I agree, Philly, I think, is mostly rhotic, even a traditional Philly accent. An old school Brooklyn accent is 0-30% non-rhotic, although pure non-rhoticism in the New York area is dying out. Indeed pure non-rhoticism ANYWHERE in the US is getting rarer, from blacks, to Cajuns, to New Englanders.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2012, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,141,440 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
^ I agree, Philly, I think, is mostly rhotic, even a traditional Philly accent. An old school Brooklyn accent is 0-30% non-rhotic, although pure non-rhoticism in the New York area is dying out. Indeed pure non-rhoticism ANYWHERE in the US is getting rarer, from blacks, to Cajuns, to New Englanders.
That's true. There are actually a ton of linguistic changes going on in American English and it's not all of us homogenizing. That said, certain sounds are going away and most people tend to approximate something like broadcast standard when not back home.

I've noticed a Miami dialect since I've been down here. It's pretty Hispanic influenced from what I've read. I've always wondered if Miami Spanish had an accent, but I'm not qualified to figure that out. At the very least, I wonder if people try to drop more regional aspects of their own accent to deal with a diverse Hispanic community.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2012, 08:39 AM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,594,763 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
That's pretty cool, but he's definitely a rhotic speaker. The big thing is the intervocalic r's since that's really hard to learn if you don't grow up doing it.

Btw, I'm only talking about white-American dialects.

If you want to understand the Philadelphia accent on an academic level, you should check out the work of William Labov. Here's a short video where he talks about linguistic change:

Language Change in Philadelphia - YouTube

Here's a better one (the sound is way off, though):


Development of Broadcast Standard US English - YouTube

And this may be interesting to some: Atlas of North American English
I don't know maybe its just me but this guy really sounds non rhetoric to me listen to how he says "hard" (just push play it will automatically skip to moment that I'm talking about)

Steve Martorano on the Streets of South Philly - YouTube
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2012, 08:47 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I am from northern New Jersey, fifth generation here. We pronounce the Rs at the end of our words. The exception would be a few places close to New York City, such as Jersey City. Many New Yorkers do not pronounce the R, nor do some New Englanders. Now I live in Central Jersey, and people here pronounce their Rs as well.
I don't usually drop R's, but some words get it when I talk fast. Like shore/sure (identical). Actually, I'm not sure if I drop the R sound completely, just pronounce it very lightly. Merges with the vowel (an aw sound).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,003 posts, read 54,508,374 times
Reputation: 66349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimac20 View Post
Rhotic and non-rhotic accents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scroll down to map of Eastern US to see traditionally non-rhotic areas.
Thanks. Interesting article, and yes, the map looks correct as far as NJ goes. That small area of Jersey City/Bayonne/Hoboken would be the sections where the "R" is traditionally dropped.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2012, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,003 posts, read 54,508,374 times
Reputation: 66349
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
That's because New Jersey speaks with the mid-Atlantic dialect (or even a standard American dialect for many).



That's a pretty poor description of the sound, but I'm not sure if you can describe the Philadelphia "O" without the IPA, though.

I didn't say the Philadelphia accent was identical or even that similar to standard American. I just said that it was the ancestor. Although, it would be more accurate to say that it is the most closely related since the Philadelphia accent has changed over the years.
Yes, you are right. The "oo" for the long "o" is not exactly how it sounds, but it was a quick way to type it. There's sort of a "w" in there, too. I'm not sure how it could be written to transmit the sound accurately using letters only.

I can see that it could be the ancestor. Philadelphia's importance in the early part of this country would have played a part in that, I'm sure.

Language is interesting. I've always thought so, and now my own daughter is studying linguistics, but more along the lines of how adults learn foreign languages.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2012, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,003 posts, read 54,508,374 times
Reputation: 66349
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
I don't usually drop R's, but some words get it when I talk fast. Like shore/sure (identical). Actually, I'm not sure if I drop the R sound completely, just pronounce it very lightly. Merges with the vowel (an aw sound).
My late MIL was born in MA but grew up in ME. She's been dead for 21 years, but I still say, "Pahk the cah", "Cahn", and other words and phrases in her honor.

I came home once when she was staying with me, and she apologized because she'd scotched my ironing board. I was thinking "Scotch Guard"? She meant "scorched".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2012, 09:45 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
My late MIL was born in MA but grew up in ME. She's been dead for 21 years, but I still say, "Pahk the cah", "Cahn", and other words and phrases in her honor.

I came home once when she was staying with me, and she apologized because she'd scotched my ironing board. I was thinking "Scotch Guard"? She meant "scorched".
I'm from Long Island. Shoulda mentioned that in an accent thread. Western MA is and was rhotic (non-R dropping), only eastern New England has native R dropping speakers. People from the midwest and Great Lakes seem to pronounce their R's stronger, as I said it's a continuum thing. A friend from rural PA commented that it sounds like I almost drop R's or pronounce them lightly. Friends from NYC/NYC suburbs thought the second r in thunderstorm is normally dropped.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top