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Old 07-18-2012, 07:37 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,804,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Upstate Nancy View Post
But, do take into account taxes--that's an every year thing. And, other expenses particular to a region that you choose.
Very true.
RE taxes in some of these low cost housing areas makes them not so low cost when all is said and done. I've heard stories from people who lived in upstate NY that their RE taxes matched their mortgage. Is that true or hyperbole?
If it's a second home, I'd look for a state which generates most of its revenue from income tax that filters down to the local level. Those places tend to have lower RE taxes.
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Old 07-18-2012, 08:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
Very true.
RE taxes in some of these low cost housing areas makes them not so low cost when all is said and done. I've heard stories from people who lived in upstate NY that their RE taxes matched their mortgage. Is that true or hyperbole?
If it's a second home, I'd look for a state which generates most of its revenue from income tax that filters down to the local level. Those places tend to have lower RE taxes.
This is why you check into assessments and tax exemptions. Many homes up here would cost much more in many other areas, including the South, too.

You also have to keep overall cost of living in mind, as taxes are just one aspect of costs that people have to deal with. If anything, that should be the bottom line, as some states use other tactics to pay for things.

Pay is another thing to think about. For instance, the Charlotte area and the Syracuse area are only separated in average annual salary by $1,340 dollars: Northern California enjoys nation's highest salaries - The Business Journals

So, there are many things to think about in terms of costs.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 07-18-2012 at 08:49 AM..
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:05 AM
 
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THe more north you go, the longer the winter, the more fuel to use.. the more $$$ you'll spend.
Often I notice the taxes are steep too, because of the greater size of the payroll .. such as the Public Works Dept.. guys driving snow plows, and all of the costly trucks in a fleet for winter. When we lived in CT they
would often run out of salt money.. to salt the roads.. the fat cats get hefty salaries up there.

New York state does have excruciatingly HIGH taxes. Our son lives in NY state and to live near enough
we'd have to live on the PA border near MIlford, PA, which is an adorable town, and there are a lot of lakes in the area.. lot of HOA's too, if you like that, but certainly public beaches where you need not live under the idea of paying twice (like paying for snow removal in the HOA, but then your also paying for that in your property taxes...).

There are a lot of towns that are affordable in that area and there is a train station in the very first town over the border in Port Jervis, NY which goes to NYC.
You can walk over a very small bridge to the train if you lived in Matamoras, Pa. also there are daily busses for commuters from Milford, PA.

Now then, the taxes are most definitely lower than NY and poeple like to say mean spirited thing about the New Yorkers moving into the area. People will say ingrown things up north if they feel they must, but don't let that affect you. Check out the home prices on trulia or zillow for towns like Milford, Matamoras, Busgkill, Hawley, Honesdale, Shohola (all in PA). Look at a map, and go to the website of each of those towns. I know zillow will often times publish the annual taxes of the home, but if you are curious I often find the annual taxes which are not shown simply by typing the entire address of the house I'm curious about after these words:
Annual taxes of ________. <---- then type in the address. The search results will have it there somewhere. You may have to click on a few of the results to find it, but you will.
I'm still voting for PA. OH, I forgot.. check out PARE.ORG for all homes for sale in that area which is Pike/Wayne county.
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:18 AM
 
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Keep in mind that the OP isn't staying during the winter. Things can even out in terms of weather, as summers can be longer in other regions and in turn energy costs may be higher during that time of year. NY State varies in terms of COL. So, Port Jervis is going to have a higher COL due to being closer and within the sphere of influence from NYC versus places further Upstate. Infrastructure is largely in place to handle the clearing of snow in areas that expect it. With all of this said, it will be up to the OP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CourageMom View Post
THe more north you go, the longer the winter, the more fuel to use.. the more $$$ you'll spend.
Often I notice the taxes are steep too, because of the greater size of the payroll .. such as the Public Works Dept.. guys driving snow plows, and all of the costly trucks in a fleet for winter. When we lived in CT they
would often run out of salt money.. to salt the roads.. the fat cats get hefty salaries up there.

New York state does have excruciatingly HIGH taxes. Our son lives in NY state and to live near enough
we'd have to live on the PA border near MIlford, PA, which is an adorable town, and there are a lot of lakes in the area.. lot of HOA's too, if you like that, but certainly public beaches where you need not live under the idea of paying twice (like paying for snow removal in the HOA, but then your also paying for that in your property taxes...).

There are a lot of towns that are affordable in that area and there is a train station in the very first town over the border in Port Jervis, NY which goes to NYC.
You can walk over a very small bridge to the train if you lived in Matamoras, Pa. also there are daily busses for commuters from Milford, PA.

Now then, the taxes are most definitely lower than NY and poeple like to say mean spirited thing about the New Yorkers moving into the area. People will say ingrown things up north if they feel they must, but don't let that affect you. Check out the home prices on trulia or zillow for towns like Milford, Matamoras, Busgkill, Hawley, Honesdale, Shohola (all in PA). Look at a map, and go to the website of each of those towns. I know zillow will often times publish the annual taxes of the home, but if you are curious I often find the annual taxes which are not shown simply by typing the entire address of the house I'm curious about after these words:
Annual taxes of ________. <---- then type in the address. The search results will have it there somewhere. You may have to click on a few of the results to find it, but you will.
I'm still voting for PA. OH, I forgot.. check out PARE.ORG for all homes for sale in that area which is Pike/Wayne county.
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Old 07-18-2012, 11:45 AM
 
943 posts, read 1,556,106 times
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Default Its kind of an eye opener.

No pressure..
Yes, Port Jervis will have a higher cost of living since its in NEW YORK.
I wasn't suggesting to live there.. but merely meant over the bridge in PA
prices (taxes) come down considerably. For example, the Pike Wayne site
tells me there are 221 residential homes for sale between $50-$100K over
1,000 square feet.. that's a lot to choose from. Sure, some will get passed
over but bear in mind this is a place where there are too many homes for sale
the NY'rs cannot afford their Manhattan apt. and their weekend getaway home.

Pike/Wayne Association of REALTORS(R) - Search Pike Wayne MLS Listings

Its a do your homework thing.. It may not be the place for OP, but you never know..
I have heard you cn make a pretty good low ball offer because owner are feeling
squeezed to make the payments and would relish interest in their property.
We had called about a few homes over the past several months.. the Realtors were candid.
So, in light of it being near New York, one might get into PA with a dream price.
Just check it out.. Its kind of an eye opener. I wanted to share this little secret if
one is unfamiliar.. Just wanted to share.. or she can buy my house with $790 annual taxes
here in VA!
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:37 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,804,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
This is why you check into assessments and tax exemptions. Many homes up here would cost much more in many other areas, including the South, too.

You also have to keep overall cost of living in mind, as taxes are just one aspect of costs that people have to deal with. If anything, that should be the bottom line, as some states use other tactics to pay for things.

Pay is another thing to think about. For instance, the Charlotte area and the Syracuse area are only separated in average annual salary by $1,340 dollars: Northern California enjoys nation's highest salaries - The Business Journals

So, there are many things to think about in terms of costs.
HOWEVER, if one is purchasing a second home, there are certain things to keep in mind since it's not necessarily about the total costs of living when comparing. It's about the specific things that are going to cost you as a second home owner. There may be no advantage to having a second home in a state with low income tax (as part of a total costs of living) if you are taxed at a higher rate and get paid in another state.

For example.....
Lots of people buy second homes in Florida. Because there isn't an income tax in Florida, the RE taxes are really high. This is especially true for non-residents since they aren't protected under the homestead rules that apply to residents. In the end, Florida really rakes over second/third homeowners. This is not something that many buyers consider before buying a home. For condos in Florida, it's easy to spend as much or more on the combination of HOA dues, windstorm insurance and property taxes than on the mortgage itself. I imagine there are parallel stories in other states as well.
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:28 PM
 
56,609 posts, read 80,910,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
HOWEVER, if one is purchasing a second home, there are certain things to keep in mind since it's not necessarily about the total costs of living when comparing. It's about the specific things that are going to cost you as a second home owner. There may be no advantage to having a second home in a state with low income tax (as part of a total costs of living) if you are taxed at a higher rate and get paid in another state.

For example.....
Lots of people buy second homes in Florida. Because there isn't an income tax in Florida, the RE taxes are really high. This is especially true for non-residents since they aren't protected under the homestead rules that apply to residents. In the end, Florida really rakes over second/third homeowners. This is not something that many buyers consider before buying a home. For condos in Florida, it's easy to spend as much or more on the combination of HOA dues, windstorm insurance and property taxes than on the mortgage itself. I imagine there are parallel stories in other states as well.
I agree that it is a real concern. I think the difference is demand and in turn actual home/property prices. What may be something that costs 200k up here may cost 50-100k more down there due to demand. So, overall property cost can still be lower in the end.

Proximity to outdoor and urban offerings up here can also be enticing, depending on what part of NY State. For instance, a rural locale in say Clinton County could be a nice location due to proximity to the Adirondacks, lakes, resort towns, but you still have a small city for basic needs and a cosmopolitan city in Montreal about an hour and a half or so away. You can find a variety of options like that in various parts of the state.

Other states listed could also offer a variety of pros and cons, as well. So, it will depend on what a person is looking for.
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,457 posts, read 7,523,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernComfort2 View Post
How cheap is it? What makes PA so cheap right now? Was there for a family reunion last Fall and really enjoyed it. Very charming and quaint about an hour and a half outside of Pittsburg. Kept expecting some 1940's movie stars to come around the corner of the cozy motel in plaid jackets with leather patches on the elbows looking so country chic...LOL. Gable, Bogart, Russell, McCall, I can still picture it!
There are several factors, but I think the biggest factor the amount of open, unpopulated space in PA, as well as the lack of extremely competitive oceanfront/beach town real estate. This compares to states like MA, CT, RI, NJ (and increasingly NH) which are heavily dominated by their urban areas, pushing up property values, and all have their fair share of oceanfront/beaches that shape a considerable part of those states' general real estate market.

Of course, upstate NY also has a plethora of open space, as well, and housing prices there are relatively comparable to central PA, but downstate NY/NYC Metro has very exorbitant home prices, pushing up the state median price for a home.

As with anything with real estate, it really is all about location and demand. In the Northeast, you really have your pick from very robust urban areas to sparsely populated rural areas, many of which are not performing as well economically, that will dictate your housing costs greatly.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:03 PM
 
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The options in PA's living vary so greatly.

The thing I love about PA is there is always something to do,
and you can afford to do it since your not bleeding out tax money.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:54 PM
 
Location: United States of America
208 posts, read 707,973 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CourageMom View Post
The options in PA's living vary so greatly.

The thing I love about PA is there is always something to do,
and you can afford to do it since your not bleeding out tax money.
I agree. Upstate New York might be to good to be true when you consider the taxes, etc.
As I continue my search, PA seems to interest me and my husband more.

Random comment: I was watching an old episode of Kate plus 8. She has a wonderful home in PA.
The countryside is breathtaking.
I think I might take a weekend trip out and get a feel for it.
I'm living in my son-in-law's guest house for the summer here in Central NJ at the moment.

Thank you Courage Mom and everyone else. Please keep the conversation going. It is definitely helping me through this journey.
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