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Old 07-23-2012, 05:17 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,536,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
The only people who resist the label are people from...buffalo, pittsburgh (pennsylvania), rochester (I dunno much about albany, utica so I'll ignore them for now). And that makes perfect sense, it's sexier to be part of the east coast than the midwest. It's kinda like how people in spokane, washington consider themselves part of the pacific northwest when they really aren't.
Also, the people actually from the Midwest say that, too.

I'm not trying to tell you that Buffalo has a lot in common with NYC, but as somebody who grew up in Minneapolis and now lives in Pittsburgh, I can tell you that Pittsburgh is-- in almost no way, shape, or form-- culturally similar to the Midwest.

This goes back to what one poster mentioned earlier, though. How can Akron and Bismarck be so different and still both be in the Midwest? I dunno....how can Boston and Pittsburgh be so different and still both be in the Northeast?

The Northeast/Midwest/South/Mountain West/West thing is more valuable for political and census purposes than anything else. States sometimes have pretty universal cultures; collections of states might. Sometimes it's limited to metro areas. But for the sake of assuming that everybody in the Midwest has something in common culturally, I can tell you that whatever it is, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Rochester ain't got it. Sorry!
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:24 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,536,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post

But what I'm saying is that the midwest is a bad label since it lumps two dramatically different regions into the USA (great plains/great lakes). if we adopted just the great lakes label, it will lump rochester with detroit and separate it from the east coast label alltogether.
Yes, we get your point. But let me throw this at you: how similar do you think Buffalo and Erie are to Duluth? Green Bay? The Great Lakes/Great Plains argument seems pretty silly when you look at it that way, no?

Fact is, you can split the Midwest up into probably a dozen more regions than just the two you seem to want to. Just like you can split the NE/East Coast up into New England, the Mid-Atlantic, Interior Northeast, Appalachia, and the Catskills...
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,331 posts, read 3,061,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
Also, the people actually from the Midwest say that, too.

I'm not trying to tell you that Buffalo has a lot in common with NYC, but as somebody who grew up in Minneapolis and now lives in Pittsburgh, I can tell you that Pittsburgh is-- in almost no way, shape, or form-- culturally similar to the Midwest.

This goes back to what one poster mentioned earlier, though. How can Akron and Bismarck be so different and still both be in the Midwest? I dunno....how can Boston and Pittsburgh be so different and still both be in the Northeast?

The Northeast/Midwest/South/Mountain West/West thing is more valuable for political and census purposes than anything else. States sometimes have pretty universal cultures; collections of states might. Sometimes it's limited to metro areas. But for the sake of assuming that everybody in the Midwest has something in common culturally, I can tell you that whatever it is, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, and Rochester ain't got it. Sorry!
Exactly! I've spent half my life in upstate NY and half in Minneapolis. There is no way they are part of the same region. The Interior Northeast and the Midwest may have a couple of superficial similarities but on a more fundamental level they are each their own thing. The people couldn't be more different.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
Exactly! I've spent half my life in upstate NY and half in Minneapolis. There is no way they are part of the same region. The Interior Northeast and the Midwest may have a couple of superficial similarities but on a more fundamental level they are each their own thing. The people couldn't be more different.
Minneapolis (I never been) is not a part of the great lakes or the rust belt. If I were to choose a region for it, it'd be great plains. But really the cities from Minneapolis to st. louis don't fit nicely into any level and could probably be generically called the "midwest" though St. Louis has culturally, demographically, and economically more in common with great lakes cities than great plain cities.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
Demographically, culturally, pace of life, etc has much more in common with the rest of the northeast. A person from Rochester will have much more in common with a person from Springfield, Albany or Providence than somebody from Detroit, Akron or Toledo. When ever I travel anywhere west or south of Cleveland, I"m made to feel like an outsider by the locals as my personality clashes(not in a bad way) with the way people do things.
A couple examples such as higher Italian and Puerto Rican populations; and the sarcasm and ball busting are things most of the northeast shares. You keep mentioning the rust belt. The rust belt is not a midwestern thing, but a region that extends into several parts of the country. Nobody is saying the midwest is a bad label except for you. It's not a bad label. It's just a label that does not apply to some of these cities you are speaking of.
Not at all. And there are plenty of italians/puerto ricans through chicago. Outside of Miami and NYC, you won't find a higher concentration of Puerto Ricans than Chicago. Same thing goes for italians. How demographically is buffalo different from Chicago?
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:21 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,083,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
Yes, we get your point. But let me throw this at you: how similar do you think Buffalo and Erie are to Duluth? Green Bay? The Great Lakes/Great Plains argument seems pretty silly when you look at it that way, no?

Fact is, you can split the Midwest up into probably a dozen more regions than just the two you seem to want to. Just like you can split the NE/East Coast up into New England, the Mid-Atlantic, Interior Northeast, Appalachia, and the Catskills...
there are 2 real regions and my point is that not only are they drastically different, they are not confined to what's traditionally called the midwest.

Out of great lakes cities (Duluth, Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Buffalo, Rochester - I would also attach Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and St. Louis because of economic and cultural similarities).

Great Plains (Dallas [yes], Austin, Minneapolis, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, Wichita, Des Moines, Omaha, Lincoln, Sioux Falls, Fargo, Tulsa etc ).

East Coast (Providence, Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, DC, New Haven, Wilmington, etc). I don't see how Pittsburgh has more similarities with ANY city in the East Coast designation versus the great lakes one. Same for Rochester. Same for Buffalo.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:55 PM
 
10,630 posts, read 23,440,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callmemaybe View Post
What is a common thread that makes Bismarck, North Dakota and Akron, Ohio both Midwestern? Would you say it's the farming/blue collar roots of the places? The relatively level terrain? The average personality traits?
lack of an ocean. Other than that, not much. The Midwest covers a huge territory, and you certainly can't lump it all together under something as superficial as "personality traits" or "farming".
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,150,055 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
Not at all. And there are plenty of italians/puerto ricans through chicago. Outside of Miami and NYC, you won't find a higher concentration of Puerto Ricans than Chicago. Same thing goes for italians. How demographically is buffalo different from Chicago?
I hate to nitpick, but Philadelphia has the 2nd largest Puerto Rican population and Chicago is 3rd (according to the 2010 Census). Miami doesn't have that many Puerto Ricans. The traditionally Puerto Rican neighborhood, Wynwood, is becoming the arts district after years of decline (in which many of the Puerto Rican families left). In Florida, Orlando has the biggest Puerto Rican population. South Florida is only 2nd (although, it is 4th in terms of metro regions behind NY, Orlando Metro and Philly.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,150,055 times
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I think with Pittsburgh and Buffalo (border regions), the most important thing is how people self-identify.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,235,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForYourLungsOnly View Post
Pittsburgh is a cross between North East, Midwest, Appalachia and Great Lakes.
Pittsburgh is not a Great Lakes city. It may have a lot in common with them, but it is not a Great Lakes city.
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