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Old 07-24-2012, 10:04 AM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,083,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
Chicago is a very cosmopolitan worldly city. None of the other midwestern cities come close to that. It gets compared to NYC more than anything. And no, a similar accent does not equal a similar culture. The only postings I saw from a person from Utica were disagreeing with you. They specifically stated that the people couldn't be anymore different.
I've brought up a few points supporting my argument and your only retort was to give examples from cities with non midwestern influences such as Chicago.
You have failed to show how a city I live in(Rochester) compares to the rest of the great lakes cities. They are extremely different culturally. I mentioned prior that I am currently in Albany and I have more in common with somebody from here than anywhere in the midwest or coast. Using your logic, Albany is midwestern too which is laughable.
the guy with the handle upstate-something posted throughout this thread. He's from utica, and he even identified rochester and buffalo as midwest.

Accent is one thing. Similar industries and demographics is another. Similar topography and weather is the 3rd. Again, besides your feeling, (and I have mine too), in what way are you more similar to Albany? So far I'm the only one who has shown similarities (like the northern vowel shift). You just keep saying nah-ah. Anyways, like I said you don't wanna identify with the midwest but rather with the northeast. It's the exact same way for people in spokane, washington who love to claim they're part of the pacific northwest because they're part of the same state when in reality they have more in common with Boise, Idaho.

As to Chicago, it's the biggest city as already stated and has the most diversified economy. In reality Rochester is much more similar to Milwaukee than Chicago and Detroit is more similar to Chicago than Rochester. It's more a function of size than anything else.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:09 AM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,083,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
And no, a similar accent does not equal a similar culture.
How do you think they got to have a similar accent? Accident? Coincidence? What kills your case even more is that it's a continuous geographic region. You don't have to go through any mountains to connect to other great lakes cities but you DO to get to the east coast.

What's even funnier is the northern vowel shift precisely coincides with the region I set out. I didn't even know about it until someone brought it up. But for example it excludes Minneapolis and includes Rochester and Buffalo but magically doesn't include Albany. So you interact with people from Albany somehow more yet you talk like someone from Michigan
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:13 AM
 
3,234 posts, read 7,638,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
the guy with the handle upstate-something posted throughout this thread. He's from utica, and he even identified rochester and buffalo as midwest.

Accent is one thing. Similar industries and demographics is another. Similar topography and weather is the 3rd. Again, besides your feeling, (and I have mine too), in what way are you more similar to Albany? So far I'm the only one who has shown similarities (like the northern vowel shift). You just keep saying nah-ah. Anyways, like I said you don't wanna identify with the midwest but rather with the northeast. It's the exact same way for people in spokane, washington who love to claim they're part of the pacific northwest because they're part of the same state when in reality they have more in common with Boise, Idaho.

As to Chicago, it's the biggest city as already stated and has the most diversified economy. In reality Rochester is much more similar to Milwaukee than Chicago and Detroit is more similar to Chicago than Rochester. It's more a function of size than anything else.
Similar demographics? Not at all. Similar industries? Those industries are found throughout the midwest, northeast mid atlantic. Using your logic, Springfield MA and Camden NJ would be midwestern.
Similar topography? No. A place like Rochester has several ski resorts in the metro area. I don't know of too many great lakes cities that have that.
I would be more similar to a person from Albany due to the large Italian American influence throughout the entire metro area, more of a neutral accent, the northeaster sarcasm, etc.
It has nothing to do with wanting to be part of a certain area, which I already touched on. You keep repeating that and are the only one with that opinion.

And yes, Chicago is the biggest city with a diverse economy which makes it nothing like the other midwestern cities. It is also more worldly. Chicago has many more immigrants and international visitors which has a huge influence on the city and makes it much more different from its midwestern counterparts.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
Similar demographics? Not at all. Similar industries? Those industries are found throughout the midwest, northeast mid atlantic. Using your logic, Springfield MA and Camden NJ would be midwestern.
Similar topography? No. A place like Rochester has several ski resorts in the metro area. I don't know of too many great lakes cities that have that.
I would be more similar to a person from Albany due to the large Italian American influence throughout the entire metro area, more of a neutral accent, the northeaster sarcasm, etc.
It has nothing to do with wanting to be part of a certain area, which I already touched on. You keep repeating that and are the only one with that opinion.

And yes, Chicago is the biggest city with a diverse economy which makes it nothing like the other midwestern cities. It is also more worldly. Chicago has many more immigrants and international visitors which has a huge influence on the city and makes it much more different from its midwestern counterparts.
What Rochester has are hills (I know, I drove through them) and those again exist in Michigan and Wisconsin, Ohio, etc

Italian influence is huge even in cities like Detroit (the metro area) and Chicago (obvious). For example there is such a thing as Chicago style and even Detroit style pizza.

I never detected your sarcasm as being especially stronger than that found in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland. In terms of pace of your life, you're intermediate between the great plains states and the northeast but on par with other great lakes cities.

Detroit and other great lakes cities has many immigrants. Detroit has a larger, historic "Mexican" town which is really a historic Puerto Rican/Colombian settlement who decided to open some Mexican restaurants. The amount of latin Americans in Detroit is roughly the same as buffalo by % and more by raw number. Chicago has far more by even % than Rochester.

I already said that my comments are only contentious for people from these cities. I've been there enough to know the locals disagree with me. But that's about it. East coasters view you as the midwest. People in the rest of the great lakes view you as similar kin. It's you guys attaching the importance of statehood. If the statelines were drawn differently to exclude you (But everything else was the same) we wouldn't be having this conversation. If you're snow white and wanna identify as black doesn't mean anyone will see eye for eye with you.

Last edited by PosterExtraordinaire; 07-24-2012 at 10:31 AM..
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:22 AM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,536,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
As for Minneapolis, I know that's she a funky city surrounded by lakes while OKC is a conservative large town/small city with southern influences. But Minneapolis largely developed along the same lines as OKC which developed largely along the lines of other great plains cities. Just compare the skyline of Minneapolis to OKC...they resemble each other much more than if you compare the skyline of Minneapolis to Detroit or Rochester or Milwaukee or even St. Louis. The great lakes cities reached their peek 50,s60s and experienced decline in the 70s and 80s. And many continue to experience decline today, while the great plains is (slowly) booming and haven't peeked out yet. Minneapolis also functions as a hub for great plains states (like the dakotas) whereas not so much for the great lakes states (no one in wisconsin will drive to minneapolis over chicago).
This is the problem with your assumption, though. Most of this part of your post is not true. Minneapolis *did* peak in the 60's, as did St. Paul. If you are looking for architectural proof in the skyline, you're not going to find it-- unless you look a little more closely beyond Minneapolis's "Big 3." The Foshay, Qwest, Rand, Soo Line, and Medical Arts are all skyscrapers that would fit neatly in with Detroit or Cleveland, and that's only scratching Minneapolis's surface.

As far as no one in Wisconsin drives to Minneapolis over Chicago, tell that to the thousands of Wisconsin license plates you see on Twin Cities roads any given day. People commute to Minneapolis from Wisconsin for work, school and other purposes *daily*. Northern and Central Wisconsin have much, much more in common culturally with Minneapolis than Chicago, which is to say nothing about their economic relationship. Go to a dive bar in Chippewa Falls, listen to the bartender's accent, and then tell my I'm wrong.

Quote:
Anyways, you have way too many categories for the midwest which defeats the purpose. why not just add a few more categories and categorize each city individually lol. I think mine (at least the great lakes/east coast which I'm well traveled) is a good one.
And I think it's a crass-appy one....and I'm actually *from* the Midwest. So....agree to disagree?
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
This is the problem with your assumption, though. Most of this part of your post is not true. Minneapolis *did* peak in the 60's, as did St. Paul. If you are looking for architectural proof in the skyline, you're not going to find it-- unless you look a little more closely beyond Minneapolis's "Big 3." The Foshay, Qwest, Rand, Soo Line, and Medical Arts are all skyscrapers that would fit neatly in with Detroit or Cleveland, and that's only scratching Minneapolis's surface.
Minneapolis has always grown in population. It has shifted in rank because other cities have grown quicker. But that's different than what happened to many rust belt cities which actually DECLINED in raw numbers, not just rank. Minneapolis for example is not a rust belt city like duluth. Or, I don't think it is. Prove me wrong.

Quote:
As far as no one in Wisconsin drives to Minneapolis over Chicago, tell that to the thousands of Wisconsin license plates you see on Twin Cities roads any given day. People commute to Minneapolis from Wisconsin for work, school and other purposes *daily*. Northern and Central Wisconsin have much, much more in common culturally with Minneapolis than Chicago, which is to say nothing about their economic relationship. Go to a dive bar in Chippewa Falls, listen to the bartender's accent, and then tell my I'm wrong.
I'm sure *some* people from Wisconsin commute to the twin cities especially from northern wisconsin. But you can't argue with a straight face that minneapolis captures even 10% of wisconsites as chicago does.

Quote:
And I think it's a crass-appy one....and I'm actually *from* the Midwest. So....agree to disagree?
lmao, I'm fine with that. I'm gonna need to trip out there to make a more informed argument for Minneapolis/great plains.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:36 AM
 
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Nevermind, Minneapolis did peek in the 1950s
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis
2,331 posts, read 3,061,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post

I'm sure *some* people from Wisconsin commute to the twin cities especially from northern wisconsin. But you can't argue with a straight face that minneapolis captures even 10% of wisconsites as chicago does.
When you say things like this it makes me realize you have no idea what you are talking about. The Twin Cities are full of people from Wisconsin. We probably get as many Wisconsinites as Chicago does.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:38 AM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,083,919 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
When you say things like this it makes me realize you have no idea what you are talking about. The Twin Cities are full of people from Wisconsin. We probably get as many Wisconsinites as Chicago does.
that's counterintuitive so please post some evidence. The most populated portions of wisconsin are closer to chicago than minneapolis. that's not even speaking to the fact chicago is a larger city with more stuff to do and buy than minneapolis.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:43 AM
 
3,234 posts, read 7,638,854 times
Reputation: 2708
Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
What Rochester has are hills (I know, I drove through them) and those again exist in Michigan and Wisconsin, Ohio, etc

Italian influence is huge even in cities like Detroit (the metro area) and Chicago (obvious). For example there is such a thing as Chicago style and even Detroit style pizza.

I never detected your sarcasm as being especially stronger than that found in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland. In terms of pace of your life, you're intermediate between the great plains states and the northeast but on par with other great lakes cities.

Detroit and other great lakes cities has many immigrants. Detroit has a larger, historic "Mexican" town which is really a historic Puerto Rican/Colombian settlement who decided to open some Mexican restaurants. The amount of latin Americans in Detroit is roughly the same as buffalo. Chicago has far more by even % than Rochester.

I already said that my comments are only contentious for people from these cities. I've been there enough to know the locals disagree with me. But that's about it. East coasters view you as the midwest. People in the rest of the great lakes view you as similar kin. It's you guys attaching the importance of statehood. If the statelines were drawn differently to exclude you (But everything else was the same) we wouldn't be having this conversation. If you're snow white and wanna identify as black doesn't mean anyone will see eye for eye with you.
Hills that can support multiple ski resorts(comparable to what we have) in the metro area? Where are they?

And Detroit doesn't come close to similar demographics. Percentage wise, they have a very low PR population and a much higher Mexican population(which is basically non existent in Rochester). Percentage wise, the Italian population is low compared to Rochester. They have their own style of pizza because they are a huge metro area with people from all over. With having a large metro area you will have larger numbers of each ethnicity. But as a percentage it is smaller than Rochester, which is more important. You seem to bring Milwaukee into the conversation a lot. Look at the demographics of Milwaukee and compare them to the city I live in. Not even close.
Bringing Chicago into this is a moot point as the demographics are so far out of wack with the rest of the midwest, you can't even begin to compare. They have much more immigration.
In terms of sarcasm, it is not even on the same level as the other great lakes cities. Me and my co-workers have offended countless people form Ohio with our senses of humor(on accident of course).
And no, people from other great lakes cities don't see us as kin. This is proven each time I visit another great lake city and made to feel like an outsider with all of the questions I am asked about how differently I do things. East coasters don't see us as midwestern either. They see us more as a getaway from the fast paced coastal cities while still being able to feel somewhat at home.
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