U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-24-2012, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,370 posts, read 5,147,373 times
Reputation: 3896

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
Detroit is more of a one-industry city than most cities her size but what you say really isn't true. Detroit has a lot of white collar jobs from engineering, computer programming, to mortgages etc all generated by the auto industry. Then of course is the law industry and medicine which support the large population. What I'm trying to say is that life doesn't begin or end in Detroit with being a big 3 assembly line worker. Detroit also has a big educational base due to all the engineers. In the city limits, it has Wayne State University which is a research institution and has a big medical center. In the metro (dearborn) it has a satellite campus of UMich. And the actual campus of Umich in Ann Arbor is only located about 30 minuters from giant detroit suburbs like livonia, dearborn and maybe only 15-20 minutes from the far western suburbs like romulus. As far as I'm concerned, Ann Arbor is part of the metro.

What separates Chicago from Detroit is that Chicago is the banking/finance hub and transportation center for the midwest. That's it, though arguable those areas are very important and they prevented Chicago from being a 'true' rust belt city. But only a few cities in the USA can even consider themselves to be banking/finance hubs. After NYC, we got Chicago, the bay area (centered in San Francisco), Miami, and DC straggling behind. I may throw Philadelphia and Boston in there too. But that's it, not even Los Angeles is a major banking/finance hub.

When I lived in San Diego, I had the feeling San Diego was more of a one trick pony than Detroit. Other than the military complex (which also exists in Detroit!), there was Qualcomm and the biotech industry centered around UCSD. Most people with engineering degrees relocate to either Los Angeles or better yet: the Bay. It's really difficult for people to remain in San Diego with such a degree unless they get that spot with Qualcomm or one of the smaller companies. And of course San Diego is considered a safe city, it's also smaller than Detroit (metro area).

Of course, San Diego is not even the worst. Try such cities like Miami (larger than Detroit), New Orleans (smaller), or worse yet Orlando

Eh, I'm not buying that. I'm familiar with Detroit, and it's economy sucks just like the Kansas City economy does. Of course those who are well educated are going to find opportunity in either city that does not involve "monolithic big company" getting them a job, but for majority it's the case. Trust me, I have a lot of family in the Detroit. It's a ghost town, and everyone is either broke, or barely making any money on what piece of job they do have. And this is Detorit, a mdiwestern megacity. I mean you can get good engineering jobs in KC, doesn't change the fact that most people spend their lives working for 3 or 4 companies in the area.

When I came to Atlanta, things were opened up to me. There weren't just 3 or 4 big companies, but loads of them. And tons of mid sized companies people have never heard of. Such a diverse economy, and not nearly as closed as the midwest. I now live in Seattle, even better.

You can't deny that simpler living is a result of the very monolithic nature of midwestern economies. The midwest probably has more 1 million + cities than the south does or North East does. But due to the way economics work in the midwest, you will find a much simpler view about what's expected out of you. People who get educated and leave the midwest, almost never come back. People who stay there, are either struggling, or working for some big company in the area. Very few have awesome careers in the midwest. Not to say great jobs in the midwest don't exist. It's just not as common as it is in other regions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-24-2012, 01:10 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,080,439 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
What is your point? Did you read the rest of my post, as well?

The focal point for Wisconsinites in Milwaukee and Green Bay is probably either Milwaukee or Green Bay. They are, after all, major cities. Nobody from Milwaukee thinks of Chicago as "the city" and goes there routinely for work or pleasure (although there is some daily migration between fringe suburbs on both the Wisconsin and Illinois sides).....they think of Milwaukee as "the city." Your claim that only 10% as many Wisconsinites will identify with the TC as identify with Chicago is really asinine, sorry. I'm really just getting the impression that you don't have enough experience in Wisconsin outside Milwaukee maybe to stake that claim...
i'm giving my estimate but i think it's pretty good. Milwaukee isn't really a big city. A lot of people in Milwaukee will take weekend shopping trips to Chicago for example. Now I know TC has great shopping too but lemme ask this: even for someone far up in green bay, given a choice, where is he gonna drive to MOST of the time? Chicago or Minneapolis? And from green bay south (staying a bit from the border with Minnesota until we get to southern Wisconsin) that pretty much covers 80-90% of the population of wisconsin.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2012, 01:14 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,080,439 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Eh, I'm not buying that. I'm familiar with Detroit, and it's economy sucks just like the Kansas City economy does. Of course those who are well educated are going to find opportunity in either city that does not involve "monolithic big company" getting them a job, but for majority it's the case. Trust me, I have a lot of family in the Detroit. It's a ghost town, and everyone is either broke, or barely making any money on what piece of job they do have. And this is Detorit, a mdiwestern megacity. I mean you can get good engineering jobs in KC, doesn't change the fact that most people spend their lives working for 3 or 4 companies in the area.

When I came to Atlanta, things were opened up to me. There weren't just 3 or 4 big companies, but loads of them. And tons of mid sized companies people have never heard of. Such a diverse economy, and not nearly as closed as the midwest. I now live in Seattle, even better.

You can't deny that simpler living is a result of the very monolithic nature of midwestern economies. The midwest probably has more 1 million + cities than the south does or North East does. But due to the way economics work in the midwest, you will find a much simpler view about what's expected out of you. People who get educated and leave the midwest, almost never come back. People who stay there, are either struggling, or working for some big company in the area. Very few have awesome careers in the midwest. Not to say great jobs in the midwest don't exist. It's just not as common as it is in other regions.
I'm coming to Atlanta this Sunday actually so I'm not saying the economy is good in Detroit. it's not. But it's actually better than in San Diego job wise. And Chicago isn't doing so hot.

Places that are doing good:

The Bay (for now)
DC
Houston
Dallas
Atlanta
Seattle

But detroit isn't a one trick pony, and jobs are coming to the metro. It's doing better now than San Diego for example (job growth).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2012, 01:25 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,534,101 times
Reputation: 1503
Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
i'm giving my estimate but i think it's pretty good. Milwaukee isn't really a big city. A lot of people in Milwaukee will take weekend shopping trips to Chicago for example. Now I know TC has great shopping too but lemme ask this: even for someone far up in green bay, given a choice, where is he gonna drive to MOST of the time? Chicago or Minneapolis? And from green bay south that pretty much covers 80-90% of the population of wisconsin.
Actually, it's usually the opposite....if anybody ends up taking "shopping vacations" it's usually Chicagoans to the Twin Cities or Wisconsin, to avoid sales taxes.

In fact, Chicagoans are going to end up in Wisconsin for weekend cabin trips in the summer more often than not, too. Almost everything is cheaper and less hassle for people from the far reaches of northern and western Chicagoland in Wisconsin than it is in Chicago. Take my sister's work for example-- based in Schaumburg, booking their company outings at Miller Park instead of Wrigley Field, at least since she's been there. The rationale? Easier and cheaper for the employees to get to.

And yes, Milwaukee is a big city. Since you were wrong about the 'Minneapolis is growing' thing, I think I need to ask you for posterity's sake: how big do you think Milwaukee is? Truth is, Milwaukee has everything anybody needs to live out a "city experience," although granted not in the abundance that Chicago has. Nobody...I repeat *nobody*....in Milwaukee thinks of Chicago as "the city." Try telling them that in downtown Milwaukee sometime, and see how long it takes for your jaw to get broken

So just take Milwaukee out of the equation. I grant you-- willingly-- that Chicago draws Wisconsinites from the fringe outer counties of Milwaukee's MSA, as well as from the Janesville-Beloit area, and in fact a good hunk of the southeast past Madison. Really, nobody from Green Bay or the Fox Valley is going down to Chicago very regularly for anything (because, again, in the rare instance that there's something that they need that's not in Green Bay or the Fox Valley, like....say....an off-Broadway show or new 5 star restaurant opening, it's in Milwaukee).

Even if we grant your premise, Green Bay due south to the border is *not* 80-90% of Wisconsin's population....not even close...in a state the size of Wisconsin, that would be all but 500,000 people....or in other words, 5 MILLION+ people live along the Lake Michigan shoreline, and only about 500,000 in the other, what? 40,000 square miles of the state???

Better yet, just look at the MAP I gave you that MAPPED the pull of both metro regions in Wisconsin based on individual survey results, and then tell me-- based on the MAP-- which city controls more turf in Wisco?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2012, 01:28 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,534,101 times
Reputation: 1503
Sorry--
I mis-construed your "Green Bay south to the border" definition. The way that I think you are defining it, though, a huge number of those people live closer to the Twin Cities than Wisconsin. Remember that Madison is about the halfway point on that drive...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2012, 01:31 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,534,101 times
Reputation: 1503
Also, I still don't think that that portion of Wisconsin as you're defining it-- at least, as I think you're defining it-- is 80-90%. Maybe more like 2/3s. Instead of just estimating, do you wanna just add up the counties you're talking about so I can see? I would do it, but I'm not the one making the 80-90% claim....;
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2012, 01:33 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,080,439 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
Actually, it's usually the opposite....if anybody ends up taking "shopping vacations" it's usually Chicagoans to the Twin Cities or Wisconsin, to avoid sales taxes.

In fact, Chicagoans are going to end up in Wisconsin for weekend cabin trips in the summer more often than not, too. Almost everything is cheaper and less hassle for people from the far reaches of northern and western Chicagoland in Wisconsin than it is in Chicago. Take my sister's work for example-- based in Schaumburg, booking their company outings at Miller Park instead of Wrigley Field, at least since she's been there. The rationale? Easier and cheaper for the employees to get to.

And yes, Milwaukee is a big city. Since you were wrong about the 'Minneapolis is growing' thing, I think I need to ask you for posterity's sake: how big do you think Milwaukee is? Truth is, Milwaukee has everything anybody needs to live out a "city experience," although granted not in the abundance that Chicago has. Nobody...I repeat *nobody*....in Milwaukee thinks of Chicago as "the city." Try telling them that in downtown Milwaukee sometime, and see how long it takes for your jaw to get broken

So just take Milwaukee out of the equation. I grant you-- willingly-- that Chicago draws Wisconsinites from the fringe outer counties of Milwaukee's MSA, as well as from the Janesville-Beloit area, and in fact a good hunk of the southeast past Madison. Really, nobody from Green Bay or the Fox Valley is going down to Chicago very regularly for anything (because, again, in the rare instance that there's something that they need that's not in Green Bay or the Fox Valley, like....say....an off-Broadway show or new 5 star restaurant opening, it's in Milwaukee).

Even if we grant your premise, Green Bay due south to the border is *not* 80-90% of Wisconsin's population....not even close...in a state the size of Wisconsin, that would be all but 500,000 people....or in other words, 5 MILLION+ people live along the Lake Michigan shoreline, and only about 500,000 in the other, what? 40,000 square miles of the state???

Better yet, just look at the MAP I gave you that MAPPED the pull of both metro regions in Wisconsin based on individual survey results, and then tell me-- based on the MAP-- which city controls more turf in Wisco?
Milwaukee is a small city. Without looking I'm going to estimate it to be 1 million + (metro). That's small. I'm from Los Angeles which is about 12 million (metro).

And you know, I did spend some months briefly living in Milwaukee and I knew many people who took weekend trips to Chicago for shopping. A lot of the brands for example are not available in Milwaukee.

And lol, no one in Milwaukee is going to break my jaw for saying Milwaukee isn't the city. There are many reasons for this but one thing I noticed about the large share of people from the great lakes is they love to avoid conflict. They consider me rude very often, loud, and brash. The other reason is that no one in any city is going to knock you for saying their city isn't the best. Lol I know you're exaggerating but you're a real idiot.

Most people in Chicago vacation in Michigan over Wisconsin (though plenty go to Wisconsin). Michigan has sandier beaches than the rockier ones in Wisconsin. But, this is not the topic of conversation. It's about where people from Wisconsin travel to, and not where do people from Chicago travel to. I know people all the way in the western UP who go all the way to Chicago INSTEAD of Minneapolis for shopping.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2012, 01:34 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,080,439 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
Sorry--
I mis-construed your "Green Bay south to the border" definition. The way that I think you are defining it, though, a huge number of those people live closer to the Twin Cities than Wisconsin. Remember that Madison is about the halfway point on that drive...


Madison is about 5 hours from TC and about 3 hours from Chicago .....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4,370 posts, read 5,147,373 times
Reputation: 3896
Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
I'm coming to Atlanta this Sunday actually so I'm not saying the economy is good in Detroit. it's not. But it's actually better than in San Diego job wise. And Chicago isn't doing so hot.

Places that are doing good:

The Bay (for now)
DC
Houston
Dallas
Atlanta
Seattle

But detroit isn't a one trick pony, and jobs are coming to the metro. It's doing better now than San Diego for example (job growth).
Good luck. Not sure if it's your first time on the East Coast, but people are less laid back on the East. some people love it, some hate it. I personally don't like the elitest attitude of most ATLiens, and it's a shame most people there aren't very down to earth. I lived in ATL for 20 years so I was surprised at the overall friendliness and laid back attitude of people in Washington.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2012, 01:49 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,080,439 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Good luck. Not sure if it's your first time on the East Coast, but people are less laid back on the East. some people love it, some hate it. I personally don't like the elitest attitude of most ATLiens, and it's a shame most people there aren't very down to earth. I lived in ATL for 20 years so I was surprised at the overall friendliness and laid back attitude of people in Washington.
I lived in Miami for a minute. But I was younger and just partied. I don't consider ATL east coast but maybe if things work, I'll move to NYC and start myself there. Always wanted to live there Thanks for the well wishes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top