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Old 07-24-2012, 02:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post


Madison is about 5 hours from TC and about 3 hours from Chicago .....
I said "about". It's five hours if you drive like my grandma lol. I could get to Milwaukee from Minne in a little over 5 hours. Madison is about 240 miles, so less than 4 hours.

From there, it's about a 3 hour run into the loop in Chicago (with average traffic). Granted, it's less with 0 traffic, but that rarely happens. Trust me, I've done this many, many, many times before.

If you really want to be a stickler about it, fine: Tomah is more of the halfway point. Madison is sort of the "philosophical" halfway point though-- it's where you start or stop seeing Minnesota or Illinois license plates in abundance on the road with you, depending which direction you are going...
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
Milwaukee is a small city. Without looking I'm going to estimate it to be 1 million + (metro). That's small. I'm from Los Angeles which is about 12 million (metro).
It's about 1.8 million. It depends on your vantage point, I guess. Yes, it's small compared to LA. But it's not small in most people's minds....

Quote:
And you know, I did spend some months briefly living in Milwaukee and I knew many people who took weekend trips to Chicago for shopping. A lot of the brands for example are not available in Milwaukee.
So? I knew people that took trips to Minneapolis for shopping from Chicago....doesn't mean it was common; doesn't mean that Minneapolis is a major shopping destination for Chicagoans.

In my experience, you are much, much more likely to see people from Chicago taking shopping trips in Wisconsin, provided it's not too long of a drive, than the other way around. Granted, people from across the Midwest will occasionally vacation in Chicago, because it has a region-wide pull. But I hardly think people spending one weekend out of the year (if that) on Michigan Ave. constitutes a legitimate relationship of economic and cultural co-dependence...

Quote:
And lol, no one in Milwaukee is going to break my jaw for saying Milwaukee isn't the city. There are many reasons for this but one thing I noticed about the large share of people from the great lakes is they love to avoid conflict. They consider me rude very often, loud, and brash. The other reason is that no one in any city is going to knock you for saying their city isn't the best. Lol I know you're exaggerating but you're a real idiot.
I was exaggerating. But thanks for calling my an idiot. Ironic considering how many facts you've gotten wrong about so many different things so far in this thread, no....?

Quote:
Most people in Chicago vacation in Michigan over Wisconsin (though plenty go to Wisconsin). Michigan has sandier beaches than the rockier ones in Wisconsin. But, this is not the topic of conversation. It's about where people from Wisconsin travel to, and not where do people from Chicago travel to. I know people all the way in the western UP who go all the way to Chicago INSTEAD of Minneapolis for shopping.
Minneapolis has no real pull on the UP, so that doesn't surprise me. Again, though, more important than what those people do with one free week or weekend a year (at most), is what do they self-identify as the most important city in their region? I doubt many of them would say Chicago. Most of the Yupers I've met hadn't even been to Chicago before they moved to Minneapolis or Madison for school or work, etc...
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:42 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,082,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
I said "about". It's five hours if you drive like my grandma lol. I could get to Milwaukee from Minne in a little over 5 hours. Madison is about 240 miles, so less than 4 hours.

From there, it's about a 3 hour run into the loop in Chicago (with average traffic). Granted, it's less with 0 traffic, but that rarely happens. Trust me, I've done this many, many, many times before.

If you really want to be a stickler about it, fine: Tomah is more of the halfway point. Madison is sort of the "philosophical" halfway point though-- it's where you start or stop seeing Minnesota or Illinois license plates in abundance on the road with you, depending which direction you are going...
Madison-Chicago (smack into the loop) is 150 miles (google maps) so theoretically you could do it in 2 hours (no traffic).

From Minneapolis-Madison is about 270 miles (google maps). So about 3.5 hours.

From Milwaukee-Chicago is about 90 miles (google maps). So about 1 hour no traffic, a little over.

From Milwaukee-Minneapolis is about 340 miles (google maps). Let's sat 4.5 hours.

The distance from Madison to Chicago is about the same as from San Diego to Los Angeles (a common weekend drive).

The distance from Madison to Minneapolis is like from San Diego to Santa Maria (a drive almost never done).

That's the difference.
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
I was exaggerating. But thanks for calling my an idiot. Ironic considering how many facts you've gotten wrong about so many different things so far in this thread, no....?
Everyone has got some facts wrong since we're typing off the cuff. I got wrong that Minneapolis peeked around 1950. Big deal, I corrected myself when I researched it. That was the only one. What other fact I get wrong?



Quote:
Minneapolis has no real pull on the UP, so that doesn't surprise me. Again, though, more important than what those people do with one free week or weekend a year (at most), is what do they self-identify as the most important city in their region? I doubt many of them would say Chicago. Most of the Yupers I've met hadn't even been to Chicago before they moved to Minneapolis or Madison for school or work, etc...
People from the western UP and northern Wisconsin are real close. If it has no pull for Yupers, then it's similarly not a destination for people in northern Wisconsin. It's my impression that only Wisconsites near the TC drive there, which is only those near the Wisconsin-Minnesota border. You'll see a ton of Wisconsin plates in Chicago. Second only to Illinois.

Now you may see a 1000 Wisconsin tags in Minnesota over the summer. But how do you know you won't see 10,000 Wisconsin tags if you lived in Chicago
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
The distance from Madison to Minneapolis is like from San Diego to Santa Maria (a drive almost never done).

That's the difference.
I getcha, dude, but if it's "almost never done", how do you explain the thousands of UW Madison kids packing 94 each weekend for trips back to visit mom and dad in the Cities? You ever get a chance to do that drive, btw?

Part of the equation here is that U of M and the UW system have reciprocity for students in the other state (in-state tuition rates). UW might have that with Illinois, but U of M does not. What it means is that there is a huge swath of intellectual capitol from Madison all the way past the Twin Cities (where U of M's largest campus is) to St. Cloud that was born in one state, went to school in the other, got a job in the other, had kids in the other. Since the Twin Cities are the second biggest economy close to Madison (after Chicago, sure), tons of Wisconsinites end up there for jobs. Tons of Twin Citians end up retiring out on a lake somewhere in Wisconsin. Tons of Wisconsinites stay in the westernmost counties of Wisconsin, and commute in-- not just those two that I mentioned, but others not counted in the MSA. Believe me....I know what I'm talking about here: MSP is the economic, cultural, and historical hub for Minnesota, Northern Iowa, the eastern parts of the Dakotas, and yes-- even a big hunk of Wisconsin.

I'm not really in the mood to keep arguing about this. I'm not gonna convince you, so let's just leave it be...
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:58 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,535,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
People from the western UP and northern Wisconsin are real close. If it has no pull for Yupers, then it's similarly not a destination for people in northern Wisconsin. It's my impression that only Wisconsites near the TC drive there, which is only those near the Wisconsin-Minnesota border. You'll see a ton of Wisconsin plates in Chicago. Second only to Illinois.

Now you may see a 1000 Wisconsin tags in Minnesota over the summer. But how do you know you won't see 10,000 Wisconsin tags if you lived in Chicago
Western Up, *far* northern Wisconsin, and the Iron Range are culturally tied to Duluth (if any big city at all), and maybe a few towns on the UP itself, like Marquette. Central and the rest not-so-far northern Wisconsin, MSP.

You're impression is really incorrect. See my previous post. There are folks from Madison all the way up with reasons to drive to Minneapolis, whatever they may be. And believe me, they do...

I know that I don't see 10X the Wisconsin plates in Chicago as I do in Minneapolis because I've been both places. You haven't. The ratio-- as Drewcifer pointed out-- is much, much closer to 1:1 than it is to 10:1
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Old 07-24-2012, 02:59 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,082,358 times
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Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
I'm not really in the mood to keep arguing about this. I'm not gonna convince you, so let's just leave it be...
i agree, i just want you to answer my question (i won't respond) since we've been talking around each other

for the average wisconsite, do you think they end up in chicago more or less than TC.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:16 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,535,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
i agree, i just want you to answer my question (i won't respond) since we've been talking around each other

for the average wisconsite, do you think they end up in chicago more or less than TC.
I don't think they end up in either very often. But if forced to pick, I'd say the Twin Cities.

As you already know, it's going to depend on where in Wisconsin they're from. If they live in Beloit, obviously Chicago. Eau Claire, La Crosse, Chippewa Falls, Stevens Point? Twin Cities. I'm not trying to invalidate your personal experience-- I've seen plenty of Wisconsin plates in Chicago, and know it's a big regional pull for a lot of Wisconsinites. Same can be said for the Twin Cities, though. And I don't think Green Bay really has either city on its radar, except for sports rivalries
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Maryland
4,270 posts, read 5,493,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
i agree, i just want you to answer my question (i won't respond) since we've been talking around each other

for the average wisconsite, do you think they end up in chicago more or less than TC.
After living in WI for 5 years, I'd say most of the people that live in either Madison or Milwaukee (which compromise a large chunk of the state's population) end up in Chicago more often than the Twin Cities. Certainly, I feel that people in Milwaukee go to Chicago more often than the Twin Cities (and I also feel that more people from Chicago go to Mke more often than the TC).
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:55 PM
 
Location: West Tennessee
2,082 posts, read 2,904,002 times
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Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
I guess it's not really fair for me to rag on somebody else's delineations of the Midwest without providing my own. So, if forced to do it, here's how I would split it up:

Draw a big blob around Chicago, including Northern Indiana east to Michiana, and north from Chicago through Milwaukee, the Fox River Valley, and Door County.

Draw a big blob from the southern border of Wisconsin (around Beloit), northeast through Madison and Eau Claire, through the Twin Cities, all the way up to St. Cloud, including Rochester.

Draw a big blob from Champagne-Urbana, west through the Quad Cities and Des Moines, stopping at Omaha.

Most of Northern Iowa and Southern Minnesota (particularly the Minnesota River Valley) together.

Extreme western Minnesota, west through both of the Dakotas, stopping at at least the Missouri River-- probably as far as the Badlands in SoDak.

Draw a big blob south from Omaha around the Missouri River and Kansas City, including most of Nebraska and almost all of Kansas.

Draw a big blob around Cape Girardeau, St. Louis, and southern Illinois (around Cairo). Either extend this blob all the way across southern Indiana to Cincy, or draw a separate blob-- maybe even dipping south to Louisville?

Michiana+ the Lake Michigan shore of Michigan.

Big blob around Detroit and Toledo, including Flint.

Big blob around Cleveland, Akron, and Youngstown.

Big blob in central Ohio, centered around Columbus, no further south than Dayton.

Northern Minnesota, Northern Wisconsin, and the UP together.

Big blob around the Badlands, extending south into extreme western Nebraska, and maybe a little of western Kansas, as well.

Missouri from Jefferson City, or maybe even as far south as Springfield maybe north through Southern Iowa.

Southern Missouri kinda on its own.

The rest, "No Man's Land."

By no means perfect, and I haven't been to all of these places (well, I think I've at least been through all of these places at one point or another, but definitely haven't spent a lot of time in all of them). But if forced to do it, that's how I would. The St. Louis 'zone' could maybe even straddle the Mississippi to as far South as Memphis, although Memphis is pretty Southern. I just know that going to both, they were similar in some ways: rabid Cards fans, blues, bbq, well-established African American communities, some similar topography and historically 'river economies'.

But now I'm starting to dissect my very own definitions, so I'll leave this post be until I do too much of that....
The MO-IL-KY Tri-State region really doesn't have much in common with St. Louis other than having histories on the river. St. Louis's sphere of influence really begins to drop off about 30 miles north of Cape. (Probably due to the media markets more than anything) The Memphis sphere of influence begins about 50 miles south of Cape. People in Cape consider their local region to be Missouri, Illinois, Kentucky and Tennessee. (And the abundance of license plates in Cape from these four states would support that) No one in Cape Girardeau or Cairo considers any part of Indiana, even Evansville, to be "local". Then you have the fact that Cape Girardeau is the only decent sized community in the bootheel that could really be considered "Midwestern" and even that can be debatable. I would say much of the bootheel is far enough from a major city that it identifies with itself more than with a large city, especially with how rural the culture is.

I do agree with you about St. Louis & Memphis sharing some similarities however. Definitely redbird country.

Last edited by GunnerTHB; 07-24-2012 at 08:09 PM..
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