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Old 09-13-2012, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,146,402 times
Reputation: 809

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
I think the idea of the interior northeast exists to most of the people who have lived in it. When I was growing up in upstate New York (Utica) I considered my self an easterner but not an east coaster, we were the other northeast. Having lived in the Midwest for much of my life (Minneapolis and Chicago) I would never consider the interior northeast to be part of the Midwest but I think it is reasonable to make the case that northeastern Ohio is acutally part of the interior northeast or is a transition zone between it and the Midwest.
Yeah, I'm definitely coming around to the idea of an interior northeast. It seems most people in Buffalo, Rochester and Pittsburgh consider themselves to be residents of the Northeast. I asked a friend from Buffalo if it's the Northeast or Midwest and he replied that it's part of the Northeast, but is culturally more like the Midwest. I'm not sure if that means it's actually more like the Midwest, but people don't like to cross state lines, but I'm inclined to go with self-identification. So, I would say the the Interior Northeast is a transition zone to the Midwest, but is still part of the Northeast.

I'm not sure about Ohio, though. It makes sense, but I think most Clevelanders would consider themselves to be a part of the Midwest. I could be wrong, though. Anyone from Cleveland want to comment on that idea?
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:38 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,080,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
Yeah, I'm definitely coming around to the idea of an interior northeast. It seems most people in Buffalo, Rochester and Pittsburgh consider themselves to be residents of the Northeast. I asked a friend from Buffalo if it's the Northeast or Midwest and he replied that it's part of the Northeast, but is culturally more like the Midwest. I'm not sure if that means it's actually more like the Midwest, but people don't like to cross state lines, but I'm inclined to go with self-identification. So, I would say the the Interior Northeast is a transition zone to the Midwest, but is still part of the Northeast.

I'm not sure about Ohio, though. It makes sense, but I think most Clevelanders would consider themselves to be a part of the Midwest. I could be wrong, though. Anyone from Cleveland want to comment on that idea?
The only reason those people from rochester and buffalo are even saying northeastern ohio is a transition zone between the northeast and midwest is because northeastern ohio reminds them unmistakably of home and they're so adamant about their eastern credentials they have to say that

In reality the transition between the east coast and midwest occurs around Syracuse.

Midwestern culturally is exactly what I mean. He probably means it's in the northeast geographically because it's in the state of NY. Which makes no sense, it's a great lakes city.
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Old 09-14-2012, 05:57 AM
 
3,234 posts, read 7,633,801 times
Reputation: 2708
Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
Your demographics argument was always a red herring and I showed you it wrong with Cleveland which is more Puerto Rican than Buffalo and by raw numbers, Rochester. But it has and always is irrelevant to the culture. You guys speak the same? Imagine why? Because there is a greater interchange between you and other great lakes cities than east coast ones.
It is not a red herring. Demographics play a large part in influencing the culture of an area. You are now bringing up Buffalo into your failing argument when my comparison was Rochester all along. And no, Ohio is not unmistakenly like Western NY. Again, you have not spent much time here so you are in no position to speak on the area. There is very very little interaction between a place like Rochester and eastern Ohio. There is much more interaction between downstate NY, New England and even Canada before there is interaction between Ohio.
You have no shown anything to support your argument other than the "because I said so" attitude.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:40 AM
 
2,076 posts, read 3,080,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
It is not a red herring. Demographics play a large part in influencing the culture of an area. You are now bringing up Buffalo into your failing argument when my comparison was Rochester all along. And no, Ohio is not unmistakenly like Western NY. Again, you have not spent much time here so you are in no position to speak on the area. There is very very little interaction between a place like Rochester and eastern Ohio. There is much more interaction between downstate NY, New England and even Canada before there is interaction between Ohio.
You have no shown anything to support your argument other than the "because I said so" attitude.
You haven't either, in fact 99% of your argument has just been assertion. But if what you say is true (i.e little interaction between Rochester and the rest of the midwest) then you wouldn't exactly speak like rest of the midwest. Speech patters don't rise up in a vacuum. The land nor weather crafts speech patterns. What does is interaction and homogenization of neighboring people's. If what you said was true, you'd speak more like downstate people than midwest people but you don't and that folks is really the end of the story.

Finally, Buffalo has been in the story since day 1. And like a typical american you confuse someone's distant ancestry for culture. An Italian-American is just an American who looks more Italian and has an Italian sounding name. Those Italians in Rochester don't speak Italian, really don't know the first thing about Italian. Culturally they're American, and in that case, midwestern American
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:56 AM
 
3,234 posts, read 7,633,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
You haven't either, in fact 99% of your argument has just been assertion. But if what you say is true (i.e little interaction between Rochester and the rest of the midwest) then you wouldn't exactly speak like rest of the midwest. Speech patters don't rise up in a vacuum. The land nor weather crafts speech patterns. What does is interaction and homogenization of neighboring people's. If what you said was true, you'd speak more like downstate people than midwest people but you don't and that folks is really the end of the story.

Finally, Buffalo has been in the story since day 1. And like a typical american you confuse someone's distant ancestry for culture. An Italian-American is just an American who looks more Italian and has an Italian sounding name. Those Italians in Rochester don't speak Italian, really don't know the first thing about Italian. Culturally they're American, and in that case, midwestern American
No it hasn't. I gave several examples and provided links... You tried to argue those, failed at making an argument then all of the sudden decided that those factors(demographics) don't count. You cant argue something for several pages, then all the sudden decide that the factor does not count when your argument fails.
And we don't speak exactly like the midwest. Heck, even Buffalo which is only 60 miles away has a different accent. You keep proving that you have spent very very little time in NY with each post. I can count on one hand the number of people I know that have been to Cleveland. Almost every person I know has been to NYC and New England. There are very little transplants from Ohio here. There are many transplants from New England and Downstate NY. I live here, I see it every day. You don't. NY does not have much interaction with Ohio.
You keep clinging to the accent argument like it is an all encompassing factor. A person from Rochester will have the same accent as a person from a rural community 50 miles away. But they will have very very little in common culturally. Same deal with great lakes cities.
And yes Italians around here and many of northeastern cities know plenty about Italian culture. There are many 1st generation Italians around. And most are only 2-3 generations removed. Many of the traditions remain which influences the local culture.
Once you have actually spent time here, you can speak on the area.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,146,402 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
The only reason those people from rochester and buffalo are even saying northeastern ohio is a transition zone between the northeast and midwest is because northeastern ohio reminds them unmistakably of home and they're so adamant about their eastern credentials they have to say that

In reality the transition between the east coast and midwest occurs around Syracuse.

Midwestern culturally is exactly what I mean. He probably means it's in the northeast geographically because it's in the state of NY. Which makes no sense, it's a great lakes city.
I think Buffalo still has a lot of ties to New York and Albany. In the end, I think if a place thinks it is Midwestern, that's what it is. If it thinks it's Northeastern, I'd agree with that too.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:49 AM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,534,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PosterExtraordinaire View Post
In reality the transition between the east coast and midwest occurs around Syracuse.

Midwestern culturally is exactly what I mean. He probably means it's in the northeast geographically because it's in the state of NY. Which makes no sense, it's a great lakes city.
Lol.

Oh wait...you were serious? Oh....dear....um, sorry?
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:30 PM
 
425 posts, read 285,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
Hence why people say Cleveland shares some northeastern characteristics. Cleveland is the exception to the rule and not the norm for midwestern demographics. Some see it as a semi transitional zone. It has a higher than normal PR and Italian population than most of the midwest, but not as large as the northeastern cities.
Midwestern cities more in line with Roch's population would be Akron, Toledo, Milwaukee.

Youre going to have these transitional cities, which is what I dont understand about people.

Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Cleveland are transitional.

Do people honestly expect a complete black and white divide here between Northeast and Midwest?
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:36 PM
 
425 posts, read 285,925 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
Has anyone looked into self-identity? As you go east, at what point do people stop saying they're living in the Midwest (I know people from Pittsburgh don't tend to view themselves as Midwest, but I've heard mixed things about Buffalo). Same question for going west. I'm sure the Rocky Mountains have a lot to do with the dividing line.

I have never heard anyone from Buffalo say theyre Midwest.


See, this is what I dont get. Outsiders on here may suggest that Buffalo is Midwest from their POV, because it shares characteristics, but if youre gonna suggest that it is in the Midwest, then youre completely wrong.

Its as if people know whats best for Buffalo more than Buffalonians, or more about it than Buffalo itself.

You have to be raised there, or live there to really know what it is.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:40 PM
 
425 posts, read 285,925 times
Reputation: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by garmin239 View Post
and besides a somewhat similar accent you have failed to show how the NY cities are similar to the midwest. You questioned things like demographics and I have shown how you were wrong in your assertions. I am not making up anything. The coastal parts of the northeast are different from the interior parts in ways which are different from the midwest. You lack knowledge of the northeastern United States and that's OK. it's an area you are not familiar with.

This guy thinks Utica is Midwest, and populated entirely by WASPs, like someplace in rural Iowa.


He really doesnt have the slightest clue on what Upstate NY cities are like.
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