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Old 08-22-2012, 01:07 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,929,047 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
If you actually bring up this topic in RL in MD it invariably doesn't last long because the internet-induced passion simply doesn't exist. I remember recently being with a bunch of other folks, and someone from Baltimore said he was a southerner. I know that not everyone I was with, me included, would think of Baltimore as southern, but they and I had no problem with him saying that. I've heard someone say "believe me, i'm from Pennsylvania and Maryland is DEFINITELY southern" and someone who said "believe me, i'm from Texas and Maryland is DEFINITELY northern", whether or not others agreed no one seemed too concerned by the topic.

But you go on and say something on City Data and BAM! 100 Page thread with people throwing *%#^ at each other.
City-data is just not reflective of real life I guess...people are less confrontational in face-to-face discussions for the most part.

 
Old 08-22-2012, 01:08 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,929,047 times
Reputation: 4077
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
Interesting question, of course, but there are only (hmmmmm) possibly 14 million other threads over just the last three years, related to this subject. LOL And it always leads to nothing but strong opinions (and trolls) on a subject that has forever been the subject of debate (since about 1960 or so, at least) and always will be. If it weren't? Then the subject would not pop up like popcorn...

And I agree is IS an interesting subject! The problem usually comes in when people who -- when it comes right down to it -- know nothing about Southern history/culture...and it start fights by posting facts they cannot back up at all...

But anyway, IHMO, (and that is all it is) "the South" can be defined (along with a hundred other definitions!) generally speaking -- as those states where a majority of residents (according to the most extensive surveys ever done...and over 7 years) reflected where they not only considered themselves to live in the South, but thought of themselves as Southerners. These were the 11 Old Confederate States, plus Kentucky and Oklahoma. West Virginia was on the borderline.

This survey (conducted at the University of North Carolina as part of the Southern Focus Poll) is available on line. But naturally, there are going to be some who will disagree with it. Just as there are going to be some (many, in fact, as it is! LOL) who disagree with those "Deep South Purists" who not only define the South as limited to just a few states...but actually believe that the fact they are from a generally acknowledged "Deep South" state, gives them the default credentials to do so.

Hell...I actually laugh a bit about it. I know a few people (some are even distant kin), who really think the fact they are from (Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, whatever) gives them the automatic sheepskin to "define the South."

Sorry...birthplace alone are not Southern history/heritage credentials!
Several excellent points!
 
Old 08-22-2012, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,144,623 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by GunnerTHB View Post
I wish that study you are referring to was broken down to the county level.
That's exactly what I was going to say. I don't think what is essentially a cultural boundary (The South) can really be defined by state lines. I think the criteria of the poll was essentially correct--do the majority of the residents not only believe they are in the South, but define themselves as Southerns. If I went by the state boundaries, I would also define the South as the Confederacy plus Kentucky and Oklahoma (with West Virginia as the border).

Anyway, here are the linguistic boundaries based on vowel analysis (consonants change less, so were excluded). These are obviously rough boundaries and I can't tell if they have changed since then. As I posted in the accents thread, according to one article, the Inland North (characterized by the Northern Vowel Shift) is growing. It's starting to appear as far south as St. Louis. Also, there are variations within each rough linguistic region, because people in Philly think people in Baltimore talk weird (and the opposite). It also largely excludes African American dialects.

 
Old 08-22-2012, 04:50 PM
 
74 posts, read 128,540 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
Ok, so I grew up in southwest Virginia (Bristol) and I never considered va anything but southern or southern appalachian. However I've recently started looking around on these city data posts and apparently there are 900 definitions of the south or what states are included in the south......so what states to y'all are in the south?

I believe the South is at the bottom of the atlas.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 05:11 PM
 
Location: West Tennessee
2,082 posts, read 2,900,302 times
Reputation: 1337
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
That's exactly what I was going to say. I don't think what is essentially a cultural boundary (The South) can really be defined by state lines. I think the criteria of the poll was essentially correct--do the majority of the residents not only believe they are in the South, but define themselves as Southerns. If I went by the state boundaries, I would also define the South as the Confederacy plus Kentucky and Oklahoma (with West Virginia as the border).

Anyway, here are the linguistic boundaries based on vowel analysis (consonants change less, so were excluded). These are obviously rough boundaries and I can't tell if they have changed since then. As I posted in the accents thread, according to one article, the Inland North (characterized by the Northern Vowel Shift) is growing. It's starting to appear as far south as St. Louis. Also, there are variations within each rough linguistic region, because people in Philly think people in Baltimore talk weird (and the opposite). It also largely excludes African American dialects.
Funny thing is, I live north of the south/midland line by about 20 miles, and every test I've taken and recording and listening to myself indicates that I have a southern accent. I actually just noticed that the title is "Urban dialect areas". That may be where the discrepancy comes from as I am from a very rural area that is near Cape Girardeau. I think the map is correct about the city of Cape though, many there speak general american it seems.
 
Old 08-22-2012, 09:45 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
11,810 posts, read 18,807,465 times
Reputation: 11136
Where's the South? It's over there...
It's hiding in the bushes.
 
Old 08-23-2012, 04:41 AM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,807,142 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty011 View Post
What is the idea behind some Northerners wanting to claim truly Southern states as being Northern???? I do not follow this way of thinking. Are some so ignorant to think being from the North makes them better?? It does not matter which region of this country you are from no one is superior to anyone else. Only the truly ignorant think this way. Virginia is a southern state, people moving in does not change that fact.
Your view of this is very small versus the larger population of arrogant southerners who stubbornly refuse to accept the FACT that Maryland is a Southern State and DC is a Southern City.......
 
Old 08-23-2012, 04:42 AM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,807,142 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
Having spent a lot of time over the years in southern and southwestern Virginia, let me assure you that it's very southern.

I have never understood why some people think that lots of transplants to any city in the South makes it less southern. Southern cities can be urban, diverse, and fast-paced just like anywhere else and still be part of the South...this region is very diverse, and just because one area is not exactly like another doesn't mean it's no longer part of the region.
Same as well in the State of Maryland.....
 
Old 08-23-2012, 04:44 AM
 
Location: DC/Brooklyn, NY/Miami, FL
1,178 posts, read 2,513,829 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by $mk8795 View Post
Your view of this is very small versus the larger population of arrogant southerners who stubbornly refuse to accept the FACT that Maryland is a Southern State and DC is a Southern City.......
Here we go......
 
Old 08-23-2012, 04:46 AM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,807,142 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
Exactly...you can't take a random city and generalize the entire state...in the south or anywhere. NYC isn't like the rest of new york, Atlanta is like the rest of Georgia, Cary isn't like the rest of NC, and NOVA sure as hell isn't like the rest of VA. IT JUST AIN'T THAT BLACK AND WHITE. I mean think about this...Where I grew up (Bristol VA) has a Tennessee side and a Virginia side divided by what is referred to as State Street. If I live on the VA side and my buddy lives on the TN side is he just a little more southern because I'm in a "mid atlantic state with southern influences?"

I don't believe so.
Just like Baltimore and DC is not like the rest of Maryland and just because DC and Baltimore slightly resembles parts of Philly, NYC, and Boston does not Ever Dictate against the Fact that Maryland is a Southern State........
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