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Old 08-24-2012, 06:38 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,140,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I think when determining where the American South "is" we have to look at both geography AND history - with history given the most weight, considering that 150 years later, we are still feeling the effects of the most deadly war in American history (more Americans were killed in the Civil War than in WW1, WW2, Vietnam, and Korea combined).

Generally speaking (and of course there are exceptions, especially in large urban areas), the southern States which were part of the Confederacy remain culturally part of the South. And - this is the really cool thing - they are also geographically part of the South! (Say it ain't so!)

Yes, there are parts of the Midwest, and West Virginia, and Kentucky, and Maryland, which have a southern vibe to them, and there are parts of Virginia, and Texas, and Florida which definitely DON'T feel "southern," but those are pockets of communities within distinctly Southern states.

Those states are:

Virginia
North Carolina
South Carolina
Georgia
Alabama
Mississippi
Louisiana
Texas
Arkansas
Tennessee
Florida

The "border" states of WV, KY, MO, and OK definitely have some strong Southern characteristics. Maryland feels the least "southern" to me, and I've lived there twice. I would definitely label Maryland as "mid Atlantic" but distinctly Northern.

Speaking of the Civil War, Maryland was a land of bloodbaths during that time. The battle of Antietam had over 23,000 casualties - in ONE day - more than all the casualties of the Revolutionary War. And neither side won - the battle was a draw.
Plus One (or two!) KathyA! Very well said and done!

 
Old 08-24-2012, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,321 posts, read 2,750,982 times
Reputation: 1464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amercity View Post
Geographically anything below the ohio river and the mason dixon line is considered the south but culturally the south is Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, Texas and possibly Oklahoma. West Virginia, MIssouri are never considered a part of the south but have large areas that identify with the south. Virginia, Tennessee and Kentucky are considered the south culutrally but are grouped as the upper south because they differ from the deep south and the rest of the south in general. You can argue all you want but this is probably the most realistic answer
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
Enlightening....anything else you'd like to add?
Yes, "West Virginia, MIssouri are never considered a part of the south ..." This is the bs I called.
"Never"?!

Southern United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Southeastern United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Upland South - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Southeastern Division of Association of American Geographers
Southern Governors Association

And the ultimate authority of all

Located in the eastern US, in the South Atlantic region, West Virginia ranks 41st in size among the 50 states.

It was the "Never" that got me, and the pompous last line.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 03:33 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,227 posts, read 17,998,336 times
Reputation: 14678
The thing about Missouri and West Virginia is that the northern parts of each state aren't Southern at all.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 01:13 PM
 
Location: PG County, MD
582 posts, read 778,561 times
Reputation: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
The thing about Missouri and West Virginia is that the northern parts of each state aren't Southern at all.
However in West Virginia's case about 1/3 of the state isn't southern at all while Missouri is more like 4/5.
If the 1/3 of West Virginia that is northern disqualifies it from the south, than presumably the 1/3 of Maryland that is southern disqualifies it from the north.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,341 posts, read 19,615,226 times
Reputation: 13149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
However in West Virginia's case about 1/3 of the state isn't southern at all while Missouri is more like 4/5.
If the 1/3 of West Virginia that is northern disqualifies it from the south, than presumably the 1/3 of Maryland that is southern disqualifies it from the north.
I agree with this. West Virginia is mostly southern. You definitely hear strong southern accents in many places there.
 
Old 08-25-2012, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,150,619 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by $mk8795 View Post
Everything is correct except the part about Maryland being a Northern State......
Even though I strongly disagree, we can leave that up for debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
NC is mid-atlantic now? I've never heard that one before.
I guess it depends how you view the mid-Atlantic. Technically, NC is the mid-point on the Atlantic in America, but we're talking as a cultural region. On definitions, I used to define the mid-Atlantic as the Northern States that are south of New England (New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland and Delaware). However, if you define it as the transitioning area between the North and the South (in particular, the Deep South), then it would be Maryland, Delaware, Virginia and North Carolina (and sometimes Jersey for a weird reason).
 
Old 08-25-2012, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Lincoln, NE (via SW Virginia)
1,644 posts, read 1,799,289 times
Reputation: 1053
I always thought of mid Atlantic as a geographic identifier. To be honest it wasn't until I met people at UVA that were transplants who insisted on mid Atlantic being a cultural region. It was funny...these people would shutter at any remark of VA or NC being associated with the south. My guess is they hated the idea of being in the south so this was the way they explained it to themselves.
 
Old 08-26-2012, 07:21 AM
 
Location: PG County, MD
582 posts, read 778,561 times
Reputation: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
I always thought of mid Atlantic as a geographic identifier. To be honest it wasn't until I met people at UVA that were transplants who insisted on mid Atlantic being a cultural region. It was funny...these people would shutter at any remark of VA or NC being associated with the south. My guess is they hated the idea of being in the south so this was the way they explained it to themselves.
I've always thought of it being a cultural identifier for a historically maritime and plantation based culture in the middle of the east coast and a mixing of southern and northern culture, with VA being more influenced more by the south and MD and DE being more influenced by the north in the present day. The center of this region is the historical tobacco plantation areas and the original southern colonies before the 'deep south' came along. To me the Chesapeake Bay is the cultural center of the Mid-Atlantic. Southeastern PA and NJ are possibly Mid-Atlantic, while most of those states are not, and northeast NC is possibly Mid-Atlantic, while most of the state is not.
 
Old 08-26-2012, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,907 posts, read 6,130,430 times
Reputation: 6118
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnewberry22 View Post
What makes those states southern though? Other than group think we need to isolate what makes these states "southern" other than geography. If that were the case FL would be the Mecca of the south....So what is it to you that makes these states southern?

And btw Louisiana isn't considered a part of southeast region in little league baseball. I know that little league baseball isn't really the authority on regional culture but it is excluded on some random lists for professional associations too. I know that is splitting hairs but I just wanted to point out that Louisiana isn't ALWAYS considered southern.
Culture of the Southern United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia very comprehensible article on the subject and one that I agree with for the most part.
 
Old 08-29-2012, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,236,438 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
The thing about Missouri and West Virginia is that the northern parts of each state aren't Southern at all.
It's a little bit different for Missouri. Most of Missouri doesn't lean southern, while most of West Virginia does. I'd say approximately 50% of Missouri leans solidly Midwestern, 25% is mixed, and 25% leans more southern. West Virginia, I'd say that 25% leans northern, and over 60% leans southern. Missouri, Maryland, and Delaware, are all more northern than southern by today's standards.
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