Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think Maryland is really the state that defines Mid-Atlantic and is the state that has most widely accepted that definition. In my experience, while Marylanders may identify as southerners or northerners, nearly all will agree to Mid-Atlantic. The other state that has widely accepted this is Delaware, while most of Pennsylvania seems to most strongly oppose the term.
I grew up in PA and I view it as Mid-Atlantic (also as Northeast). The Philadelphia accent is definitely a subset of the Mid-Atlantic accent (not to be confused with the Trans-Atlantic accent, which is also called Mid-Atlantic).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel
Like Civil War battlefields and memorials? Waffle House? Kudzu?
As a compliment to the image earlier that showed the concentration of Baptists, here is the majority region for (most of) the counties of the United States:
However, I would include the whole range that served Sweet Tea (as in the Southern Range) and not simply the line of best fit. Any measure that doesn't have Richmond as the South is probably wrong.
As a compliment to the image earlier that showed the concentration of Baptists, here is the majority region for (most of) the counties of the United States:
However, I would include the whole range that served Sweet Tea (as in the Southern Range) and not simply the line of best fit. Any measure that doesn't have Richmond as the South is probably wrong.
I find both of those to be a bit misleading.
True, Maryland is primarily Catholic while Virginia is mostly Baptist. However, Marylands % of Catholics is nowhere near that of more Northern States, and its % of Baptists is much greater than more northern states.
Despite what the maps say though, I would call Methodism the defining religion in Maryland. There's a methodist church every couple miles or so over the entire state and they seem the most active in the community compared to other denominations. Plus a great part of the attendance in Methodist churches are other protestants and even catholics who cannot find their denomination in the area - making the churches bigger than the religious identifiers show.
So we can see here that majority by county can't be the only measure, as the area is really a transition zone, like it ends up being by nearly every other definition too.
True, you can find nonsweet tea all over Maryland. But can also find sweet tea all over Maryland. And nonsweet tea all over Virginia. That map makes no sense to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
Good luck finding much that is southern culturally in northern Virginia.
Or northern in southern Maryland. State lines don't work culturally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123
I grew up in PA and I view it as Mid-Atlantic (also as Northeast). The Philadelphia accent is definitely a subset of the Mid-Atlantic accent (not to be confused with the Trans-Atlantic accent, which is also called Mid-Atlantic).
All of those except kudzu are in Pennsylvania.
Where in PA? I spend a lot of time in Central PA and people do not identify with Mid-Atlantic there at all.
Last edited by Tezcatlipoca; 08-31-2012 at 06:45 AM..
As a compliment to the image earlier that showed the concentration of Baptists, here is the majority region for (most of) the counties of the United States:
However, I would include the whole range that served Sweet Tea (as in the Southern Range) and not simply the line of best fit. Any measure that doesn't have Richmond as the South is probably wrong.
I was looking for this map. Thanks, it shows one of the broad cultural differences between the northeastern and the southern U.S.. Also, Washington, D.C. has notable catholic universities such as Georgetown and the Catholic University of America. The largest Catholic Church building in the U.S. is also in Washington, D.C. - the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.
True, Maryland is primarily Catholic while Virginia is mostly Baptist. However, Marylands % of Catholics is nowhere near that of more Northern States, and its % of Baptists is much greater than more northern states.
Despite what the maps say though, I would call Methodism the defining religion in Maryland. There's a methodist church every couple miles or so over the entire state and they seem the most active in the community compared to other denominations. Plus a great part of the attendance in Methodist churches are other protestants and even catholics who cannot find their denomination in the area - making the churches bigger than the religious identifiers show.
So we can see here that majority by county can't be the only measure, as the area is really a transition zone, like it ends up being by nearly every other definition too.
True, you can find nonsweet tea all over Maryland. But can also find sweet tea all over Maryland. And nonsweet tea all over Virginia. That map makes no sense to me.
Yes, it's certainly a transition zone. I don't buy the idea that cultural borders stop at state borders (perhaps rivers, but that's it). The Baptist line, though, is showing the Baptist = Southern, not necessarily that Catholic = Northern. Catholicism dominates in large chunks of the country, so it can't really be localized. As far as Methodists go, Delaware is more Methodist than Maryland, so that's probably not a good measure of being Southern.
As for the Sweet Tea Line, it measures McDonald's in 2004. Sweet Tea has since gone national, but at the time, it was a strictly Southern thing for McDonald's. The fact that McDonald's did not think it would sell in Northern Virginia is telling.
Quote:
Or northern in southern Maryland. State lines don't work culturally.
Where in PA? I spend a lot of time in Central PA and people do not identify with Mid-Atlantic there at all.
I grew up in the Philly suburbs. Perhaps it helps that it's closer to the Atlantic. Although, I've come to find out that my definition of Mid-Atlantic is a bit weird because I include New York (I thought it fit neatly to have New England as one area and the Mid-Atlantic as another). Linguistically, Philadelphia and South Jersey are in the same group as Delaware and Baltimore. I haven't been able to find evidence whether or not DC is considered that. It has no Southern accent now, but did have a slight one in 1940, it seems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer
I was looking for this map. Thanks, it shows one of the broad cultural differences between the northeastern and the southern U.S.. Also, Washington, D.C. has notable catholic universities such as Georgetown and the Catholic University of America. The largest Catholic Church building in the U.S. is also in Washington, D.C. - the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.
Georgetown University is a big deal, but I think the National Shrine is simply because DC is the capital.
Again...I think the list made I made earlier in this thread is validated to some degree by most of the subsequent posts. I will reiterate it again to see if we still have disagreement. Here is the south starting north and going down and then west.
-Virginia (excluding NOVA ******* suburbs) **As a virginian...notice my discontent for this portion even being considered apart of my state**
-North Carolina (excluding research triangle)
-South Carolina
-Tennessee
-Kentucky (excluding Northern KY...cincy suburbs)
-Georgia
-Florida (excluding Orlando and south)
-Alabama
-Mississippi
-Arkansas
-Louisiana (excluding New Orleans to some degree)
-Texas (excluding the panhandle and west Texas)
STATES WITH SOUTHERN SECTIONS:
-Missouri Bootheel
-Southern Maryland
This seems to be the most comprehensive list I can make based on what i've seen in this thread. Does anyone have any quarrells?
Again...I think the list made I made earlier in this thread is validated to some degree by most of the subsequent posts. I will reiterate it again to see if we still have disagreement. Here is the south starting north and going down and then west.
-Virginia (excluding NOVA ******* suburbs) **As a virginian...notice my discontent for this portion even being considered apart of my state**
-North Carolina (excluding research triangle)
-South Carolina
-Tennessee
-Kentucky (excluding Northern KY...cincy suburbs)
-Georgia
-Florida (excluding Orlando and south)
-Alabama
-Mississippi
-Arkansas
-Louisiana (excluding New Orleans to some degree)
-Texas (excluding the panhandle and west Texas)
STATES WITH SOUTHERN SECTIONS:
-Missouri Bootheel
-Southern Maryland
This seems to be the most comprehensive list I can make based on what i've seen in this thread. Does anyone have any quarrells?
No, that looks pretty much perfect. I was just trying to figure out why that's the case.
The next question to ponder is if the South can be divided into broad regions (as in bigger than CSAs or Megacities). For example, is the Deep South/Upper South an accurate divide? Or is it better to simply look at the South as a whole.
The south most definitely is divided between deep and upper. South Alabama is nothing like upstate SC and so on. Southwest VA is nothing like eastern NC and Eastern NC is nothing like north-central Mississippi. The South is a HUGE area and it follows suit that it is different in each area. Southern Appalachia is a big area and extremely different than the coastal south. To reduce it the just, "the south" misses it a bit I think. So, I think it is definitely better in terms of gathering a real idea for the cultural identity to reduce it to regions. Just like new england and the rest of the northeast.
Again...I think the list made I made earlier in this thread is validated to some degree by most of the subsequent posts. I will reiterate it again to see if we still have disagreement. Here is the south starting north and going down and then west.
-Virginia (excluding NOVA ******* suburbs) **As a virginian...notice my discontent for this portion even being considered apart of my state**
-North Carolina (excluding research triangle)
-South Carolina
-Tennessee
-Kentucky (excluding Northern KY...cincy suburbs)
-Georgia
-Florida (excluding Orlando and south)
-Alabama
-Mississippi
-Arkansas
-Louisiana (excluding New Orleans to some degree)
-Texas (excluding the panhandle and west Texas)
STATES WITH SOUTHERN SECTIONS:
-Missouri Bootheel
-Southern Maryland
This seems to be the most comprehensive list I can make based on what i've seen in this thread. Does anyone have any quarrells?
Perfect.
I'm not sure how much disagreement there is now, I just enjoy discussing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123
As far as Methodists go, Delaware is more Methodist than Maryland, so that's probably not a good measure of being Southern.
I'm not saying it's Southern: Methodist Churches just religiously define Maryland and Delaware to me. I think they have the biggest cultural effect on these states despite apparently not being the majority. Maryland and Delaware do however have many more baptists than other northeast coast states do, but still less than the southeast states.
Last edited by Tezcatlipoca; 08-31-2012 at 10:11 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
