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View Poll Results: What is the westernmost city in the Southeastern United States?
Little Rock, Arkansas 15 15.15%
Tulsa, Oklahoma 7 7.07%
Dallas, Texas 24 24.24%
Houston, Texas 17 17.17%
San Antonio, Texas 15 15.15%
El Paso, Texas 12 12.12%
Other (Explain!) 9 9.09%
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-18-2012, 07:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by thisguysa View Post
I don't think the area fits into the "Southwest" either.

"A meaningful cultural presence of Hispanic traditions cannot be derived merely from Spanish place names." -
I don't think this applies to that region of Texas, simply because the Hispanic culture and tradition exists so strongly that the place names are irrelevant. I've heard that argument about places in California, however. Most of those counties I mentioned aren't just Spanish place names that are dominated by peoples of southern heritage, instead they are much more likely to be home to people whose ancestry traces directly to Mexico, whether first generation or many generations (less so with the counties on I-10/35 and US281). I'm not denying the migration of southerners westward, but I would argue that Southern cultural connections in that region of Texas are not the dominant ones.
Good points...but what one has to remember is that, even in that part of Texas, the Spanish/Mexican influence never played a major role in the shaping of the state. After the Texas Revolution, most Mexican natives left, and didn't come back in noteable numbers until fairly recently. Here is a good except on the subject from Raymond Gastil's classic work "Cultural Regions of the United States"..

"Unlike the Interior Southwest, neither aboriginal Indian nor Spanish-American culture played a central role in the definition of the area. The people of Texas are mostly from the Lower, Upper, and Mountain South and these Southerners easily outnumbered the Spanish speaking and Indian people even before the state joined the Union. Therefore, when we refer to a large Spanish-speaking population in Texas, we are primarily speaking of a relatively recent immigrant population, quite different from the core areas of the Interior Southwest.""

So point is, to put it into real perspective, cities like San Antonio, should not necessarily be compared with obviously Old South cities like Savannah, Georgia, or Jackson, Mississippi, but with those in the true SW...such as Phoenix and Santa Fe...and even El Paso.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Why New Orleans? I think its pushing it in the other extreme to say New Orleans. Most of Arkansas and Louisiana are decidedly Southeastern in almost every way. The only thing that is different is that they are west of the Mississippi River, but the Delta culture that dominates west Tennessee and Mississippi is also present in much of Louisiana and in Arkansas as far west as Little Rock. Topography and climate is the same, and doesn't change until you get into Oklahoma and Texas where rainfall amounts drop quickly.
This is sorta true...but not nearly to the extent that the old classic Hollywood western movies (and I love 'em!)-- which were actually filmed in desert areas of southern Arizona and California -- would lead one to believe. That is to say, yes, there is that natural east/west gradient...but rainfall amounts in Texas don't significantly drop off -- in comparrison -- until one gets about to the 100th meridian (the eastern boundary of the Texas panhandle). At THAT point, yes, you are definitely correct, Bchris. Here is a good map which indicates this fact as in overall climate:

The Climate of Texas
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:15 AM
 
Location: NC
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Houston and Dallas seem to be southeastern
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC (in my mind)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasReb View Post
This is sorta true...but not nearly to the extent that the old classic Hollywood western movies (and I love 'em!)-- which were actually filmed in desert areas of southern Arizona and California -- would lead one to believe. That is to say, yes, there is that natural east/west gradient...but rainfall amounts in Texas don't significantly drop off -- in comparrison -- until one gets about to the 100th meridian (the eastern boundary of the Texas panhandle). At THAT point, yes, you are definitely correct, Bchris. Here is a good map which indicates this fact as in overall climate:

The Climate of Texas
Agreed. I always laugh when Hollywood shows somewhere in Oklahoma or east Texas as desert, and it happens quite often. The 100th meridian is where rainfall falls below 20 inches. 20 inches per year is what is supposedly required for trees to grow. You do have to go significantly east of that though before there is enough rainfall for the tall, majestic trees the Southeast is known for (You really need a minimum of 40 inches for that). Central Oklahoma and Central Texas has areas of short, brushy trees under 20 ft tall and a lot of open prairie.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
Agreed. I always laugh when Hollywood shows somewhere in Oklahoma or east Texas as desert, and it happens quite often. The 100th meridian is where rainfall falls below 20 inches. 20 inches per year is what is supposedly required for trees to grow. You do have to go significantly east of that though before there is enough rainfall for the tall, majestic trees the Southeast is known for (You really need a minimum of 40 inches for that). Central Oklahoma and Central Texas has areas of short, brushy trees under 20 ft tall and a lot of open prairie.
LOL Some of us "Texas Regulars" (on the Texas forum), have laughed and discussed this one before. That is, so ingrained is the notion, among many Americans (due to the popularity of those old westerns), that Texas is a wasteland of sand and tumbleweeds and cactus...that to actually present the reality in motion pictures, is almost unbelievable in itself. LOL In other words, the truth is the heresy!

Anyway, I suppose there is little that can be done at this stage of the game -- and who cares, really? -- but I chuckled a bit in reading your opening lines. Yeppers, I have seen movies that, no shlit -- where the action takes place across the South...moving west -- where the background scene suddenly shifts -- once it crosses the Sabine River from Louisiana into Texas --from pine forest, almost instantaneously, into pure desert and nothing growing within a hundred mile (or at least how far the camera reaches!)

I swear...
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:27 PM
 
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Tulsa is hardly a southern city, more so it's a Southwestern city. Visited it around Labour Day, the only thing Oklahoma really has in common with the South is the heat and sharing a border. But then again New Mexico can get pretty hot and it borders Texas as well....
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:50 PM
 
Location: IN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foreverdublin21 View Post
Tulsa is hardly a southern city, more so it's a Southwestern city. Visited it around Labour Day, the only thing Oklahoma really has in common with the South is the heat and sharing a border. But then again New Mexico can get pretty hot and it borders Texas as well....
Agreed. Tulsa is not very lush like the Southeast and doesn't have the huge magestic trees. Also, the river, Arkansas, looks like a puddle most of the time these days. Tulsa definitely has a Southwest or Western flavor, but the Downtown & Midtown built up areas almost have an eastern feel. It is strange, but relates historically to Tulsa being an oil town that was very wealthy in the earlier part of the 20th century. Many of the people that migrated there were wealthy business owners and entreprenures from the eastern states and East Coast while those employed in the oil industry were often from the surrounding rural area or other parts of the South.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:13 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
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Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, and Arkansas aren't the southeast, but I've always felt that Houston is the westernmost city that resembles that specific region. The terrain alone is what ties it to much of the Deep South. Even the accents of many native Houstonians is more characteristic of the non-rhotic drawl that is commonly associated with the Lower South, unlike the twang that much of Texas is known for.

Sweet tea has never been a big deal here, but the same can be said of New Orleans. I don't know anyone who doesn't eat grits.

Last edited by Nairobi; 12-30-2012 at 08:22 PM..
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Metro Atlanta & Savannah, GA - Corpus Christi, TX
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By opinion (of course), my vote goes to Houston.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:51 AM
 
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New Orleans is the obvious answer.
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