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Old 12-12-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis (St. Louis Park)
5,991 posts, read 8,315,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetcreed View Post
Again we can agree to disagree. Columbus' central city is across the board progressive. And that would be the main 50 sq miles (pre WWII) This is about 350,000 of the total population. Plus all of the inner ring suburbs are too (grandview even worthington these days)

The areas of Columbus that are the most progressive are in and around downtown, and further out suburbs and neighborhoods. And they are not where students live. They are neighborhoods like Clintonville, the short north, the whole east and central north sides, etc.

Then the whole city and most suburbs tend moderate to socially liberal. So I would disagree that this liberal mentality is regulated to a campus area, etc. That is not that case here.

Columbus city tends to vote for things or institute things that are "progressive" before many other midwestern places. Just one example the city tried to pass a smoking ban in the 90s before that really got going. The reason for this is that much of the Columbus population is very white collar but also transplants from the NE and more liberal places. This makes a big difference in the demographics compared to cities further west. IF the city could vote for the whole state you wouldn't have the same opinion of Ohio.

And on the Iowa thing. You are correct. The equal marriage law was not voted on, it was decided by the courts. It wasn't even decided by representatives held accountable to the electorate. Thus that helps to explain why Iowa has this law (and a strange contradiction), and other places do not. If it was up to the Columbus vote/frankin county voter, Ohio would have had gay marriage in 04 etc (based on the fact the whole county then opposed the marriage bans)

I think you can find other larger midwestern cities that may fit this. Though I would argue Columbus may be the most progressive after Minneapolis and Chicago, other than maybe Cleveland (but there it is more old school democrat than solely progressive). Again for the sole fact it has a very small blue collar background and is further east (than other midwestern cities) with a high east coast transplant demographic.
I have lived in Columbus and "progressive" is not the word I would use to describe it. Sure, there are progressive parts and people in Columbus, but by and large the city is FAR from progressive in my experience....much of it.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
1,277 posts, read 4,155,170 times
Reputation: 694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
I have lived in Columbus and "progressive" is not the word I would use to describe it. Sure, there are progressive parts and people in Columbus, but by and large the city is FAR from progressive in my experience....much of it.

I think this is true in parts. And yes especially on the west or southwest sides, which are more midwestern or even slightly southern. But more of the city is than the parts that are not. That is the city limits and suburbs that are closer in though, Worthington/even Arlington/Grandview/Bexley.

These areas, and Columbus central city, are very socially liberal. Compared to other midwestern places yes it is safe to say columbus has a culturally liberal city. Places like Cleveland or Pittsburgh vote more democrat, but are more old school democrat where Columbus tends towards socially and cultural liberalism. Even most republicans in the city are very socially liberal but vote republican for fiscal reasons. This is why the support for the republican conservative value types is never very low in Columbus as other parts of the state or midwest.

Columbus is a place where where you live does very much shape your experience and view of the city. It is a crossroads between east, west, south, north and has elements of all of these demographics very much segregated into different sides/parts of the city. Also, the city has been getting more liberal over the last 20 years and is significantly more so now than at the start of the 2000s.

Last edited by streetcreed; 12-12-2012 at 03:00 PM..
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
1,277 posts, read 4,155,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Chicago, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Kansas City, and Milwaukee all get my respect. Metro areas need to be factored in as well...Chicago is able to stand on its own two feet primarily because of how big the city itself is.

To me, Des Moines, Omaha, Indy, and Columbus are just too small. Metro areas in general determine what a city has to offer, not the city itself, IMO.
Yes both the metros of Indy and Columbus are now larger than your perspective. They are much bigger than Omaha and Des Moines and Milwaukee. Really Cleveland Cincinnati and Columbus metros are relatively the same size when compared to detroit, boston, miami, etc. They are all in the lower 2 million range.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:00 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,532,744 times
Reputation: 1503
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieJonez View Post
Minneapolis for whatever reason, is liberal in the PNW sense.
I would actually argue that "Minneapolis Liberal" is much more in tune with what the old, hard-line liberals in the US used to be, and that that has just by nature extended itself to the more "granola" PNW causes.

The reason is pretty simple. Minnesota has always had a very strong, labor driven democratic party. In fact, the DFL-- MN's arm of the democratic party-- stands for Democratic Farmer and Labor. Most of the Midwestern states that were dominated by industrial/manufacturing cities and farmland were bastions of Populism and liberalism at one point, since those political affiliations best reflected their economic interests.

Now, there is a semi-famous book (and a documentary film) called "What's the Matter with Kansas?" that profiles Kansas's transition from a state with deep populist roots, to one dominated by conservative politics, which has happened actually within the span of only the last 30 or so years. The switch came when republicans, with a huge, huge amount of financial capitol, started campaigning on social issues and convinced socially conservative Christians to vote with them.

It's tough to say exactly why this didn't affect Minnesota as much (although Bachmann is an exception to the rule), but it could certainly have to do with the fact that Minnesota has an atypical brand of Christianity from the rest of the Midwest. Minneapolis, specifically, was built by Scandinavian Lutherans, and the Lutheran Church has a very strong social justice vibe (Lutheran Social Services and Thrivent Financial for Lutherans are both HQ'd in Minneapolis). St. Paul was traditionally Catholic-- also usually strong on the social justice front-- but there are plenty of areas of the US where Catholics were a political force that have not stayed as reliably liberal as St. Paul.

There is something in the Scandinavian culture that stresses the importance of a communal whole, and not of an individual (read up on Jante Law). Minnesotans typically aren't concerned with competing with their neighbors; they are more concerned with egalitarianism and maintaining social order. This is probably part of the reason that so much of the tax/wage/labor/welfare/etc. policies are liberal by most states' standards today. This I think extends to issues of gay rights/same sex marriage....people in Minneapolis and Minnesota genuinely seem more concerned with getting along with their neighbors than with what their neighbors do in the bedroom....at it's core, that's a "mind your own business" or an "it doesn't hurt you" attitude, which is very, very culturally Minnesotan.

Plus, it doesn't hurt that the Twin Cities-- with large universities and the highest concentration of Fortune 500s in American-- attracts a lot of talent, especially from outstate and neighboring states. A lot of that talent happens to be gay. If you were a young, gay male living in a small town in South Dakota, wouldn't you jump at the chance to move to Minneapolis? I would, and it's nothing really against South Dakota...

On the environmental front, remember that northern Minnesota is home to the Mesabi Iron Range, and in pursuit of that industry, the natural resources of our forests, lakes, rivers and streams were often legitimately threatened. The liberal environmental policies that you find in Minnesota are reactionary to that, among other things, but since the laws have been on the books for so long, Minnesotans just sort of take it for granted that that is the way things are supposed to be.

There's plenty more....sustainable farming is pretty big in Minneapolis, but Cargill is maybe fifteen miles away. People there are pretty well aware of the issues of American corporate farming....

...Honeywell was once headqaurtered in the Twin Cities. They made cluster bombs. Protests against Honeywell went on for some thirty+ years, and a politically radical element in the Twin Cities grew out of that.

...the American Indian Movement was started on Franklin Avenue in south Minneapolis. That is an area that is heavily populated with American Indians even today, as many moved to the Twin Cities seeking opportunities after growing up on reservations outstate.

...Minneapolis's art scene is due in no small part to the philanthropic efforts of extraordinarily wealthy businessmen like James J. Hill and the Daytons. The Daytons, in fact, were instrumental in starting a partnership in Minneapolis of businesses pledging a percentage of their earnings to supporting the arts and other community causes.

...Roy Wilkins was an instrumental figure in the civil rights movement, both in Minneapolis and nationally, and Minneapolis was the first city in the country to pass an anti-pornography ordinance, with Steinem and other key figures in the feminist movement working to push it forward.

So, I guess when I said that there was a simple answer, I lied. I'm not sure why it is the way it is in Minneapolis, either, but there are many, many historical factors that have contributed to the liberal vibe. It's also a young city, a city with a lot of immigrants-- both solid, liberal blocs. Even St. Paul, which is solidly democratic, is less liberal than Minneapolis, but it's right next door-- St. Paul used to be an older and more established "family city," although that is rapidly changing.

I'm glad that a lot of liberal causes pertaining to workers' rights, minority rights, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, arts, environment, healthcare, etc. are routinely championed in Minneapolis, but....yeah....guess I can't explain it, just expand upon the discussion a little!
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,251,141 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy View Post
Indianapolis would be a great city for you then as it is near the top in all of that criteria.
Indianapolis's citizens are very kind and warm welcoming. People are civilized and dont judge others based on their culture or beliefs.
Indy has the nations most affordable housing market and the 2nd strongest economy in the midwest. 2nd only to the twin Cities.
Some of the best schools in the state of Indiana and the nation are in the Suburbs of Indianapolis. Examples include Carmel and Fishers high school and Zionsville Public Schools.
Indy offers alot of big city amendities without the big city price and plenty of culture and recreational opportunities within an hours drive away.
1 hour south of Indianapolis is Brown County, Indiana and the Hoosier National Forest. 3 hours north up I-65 is Lake Michigan and Chicago. 2 hours southeast is Cincy and Kings Island and the Ohio river.
Eagle Creek State Park on the northeast side has many recreational amendities and is one of the largest urban city parks.

This is all so laughable. Indianapolis has the WORST dropout rate of any city in the United States, with 70% of all high school freshmen dropping out before they get their HS diploma

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/ed...pout.html?_r=0

"The study found that the Indianapolis public schools had the lowest graduation rate of any large American city in 2005, with only 30 percent of freshmen graduating on time."

With all your rah-rah boosterism for Indianapolis, the city really sucks big time in a lot of really important categories, and hosting the Stupid-Bowl football game did nothing to change that.

Last edited by jtur88; 12-15-2012 at 08:05 AM..
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,895 posts, read 4,569,476 times
Reputation: 957
[quote=jtur88;27351474][quote=Broadrippleguy;27125507]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBZ1113 View Post


This is all so laughable. Indianapolis has the WORST dropout rate of any city in the United States, with only 30% of all high school freshmen staying around to get their HS diploma

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/ed...pout.html?_r=0
lol quoting the New York times and expecting it to be the most reliable source in the country=priceless.
Also im curious. did the NY times just survey IPS? cause if so i can name 4 schools off the top of my head that are worse than Indianapolis Public Schools.

#1 Chicago Public Schools.
#2 Detroit Public Schools
#3 Cleveland Public Schools.
#4 Los Angeles Public Schools.

Keep in mind Indianapolis has 9 school districts. one for each township and IPS in Center Township.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Maryland
4,265 posts, read 5,478,884 times
Reputation: 4594
[quote=Broadrippleguy;27351502][quote=jtur88;27351474]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy View Post

lol quoting the New York times and expecting it to be the most reliable source in the country=priceless.
Also im curious. did the NY times just survey IPS? cause if so i can name 4 schools off the top of my head that are worse than Indianapolis Public Schools.

#1 Chicago Public Schools.
#2 Detroit Public Schools
#3 Cleveland Public Schools.
#4 Los Angeles Public Schools.

Keep in mind Indianapolis has 9 school districts. one for each township and IPS in Center Township.
Without any substantive evidence, you are just blowing hot air.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,340 posts, read 14,099,174 times
Reputation: 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
This is all so laughable. Indianapolis has the WORST dropout rate of any city in the United States, with 70% of all high school freshmen dropping out before they get their HS diploma

"The study found that the Indianapolis public schools had the lowest graduation rate of any large American city in 2005, with only 30 percent of freshmen graduating on time."

With all your rah-rah boosterism for Indianapolis, the city really sucks big time in a lot of really important categories, and hosting the Stupid-Bowl football game did nothing to change that.
The study referenced Indianapolis Public Schools, which is only one of 9 school districts in Indianapolis. IPS is the victim of a few problems:

1) Charter Schools
2) The ease of enrolling in any of the other school districts in Indianapolis

That essentially leaves IPS with the folks who are too poor or indifferent to leave; and the folks who use the magnet programs within IPS.

Statistically, that makes IPS look a little lower than it probably should relative to other cities. However, that doesn't excuse IPS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy View Post

lol quoting the New York times and expecting it to be the most reliable source in the country=priceless.
Also im curious. did the NY times just survey IPS? cause if so i can name 4 schools off the top of my head that are worse than Indianapolis Public Schools.

#1 Chicago Public Schools.
#2 Detroit Public Schools
#3 Cleveland Public Schools.
#4 Los Angeles Public Schools.

Keep in mind Indianapolis has 9 school districts. one for each township and IPS in Center Township.
You live in South Bend. You don't understand the very real problems that exist in some of the IPS schools.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Maryland
4,265 posts, read 5,478,884 times
Reputation: 4594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
The study referenced Indianapolis Public Schools, which is only one of 9 school districts in Indianapolis. IPS is the victim of a few problems:

1) Charter Schools
2) The ease of enrolling in any of the other school districts in Indianapolis

That essentially leaves IPS with the folks who are too poor or indifferent to leave; and the folks who use the magnet programs within IPS.

Statistically, that makes IPS look a little lower than it probably should relative to other cities. However, that doesn't excuse IPS.
Thanks! This is a good perspective on the situation.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,895 posts, read 4,569,476 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic Toast View Post
The study referenced Indianapolis Public Schools, which is only one of 9 school districts in Indianapolis. IPS is the victim of a few problems:

1) Charter Schools
2) The ease of enrolling in any of the other school districts in Indianapolis

That essentially leaves IPS with the folks who are too poor or indifferent to leave; and the folks who use the magnet programs within IPS.

Statistically, that makes IPS look a little lower than it probably should relative to other cities. However, that doesn't excuse IPS.



You live in South Bend. You don't understand the very real problems that exist in some of the IPS schools.
Wrong.
South Bends public schools suck just like IPS.
Intracity schools share the same problems and its sad to see but it kinda feeds on itself.
poor people and lower middle class/minorities cant afford the suburbs so they are stuck in the least desirable schools of any area rather it be SB/Chicago/Indy/Detroit etc.
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