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Old 12-17-2012, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
I don't think most people in Oregon really want rapid growth. They want more stability than that. The idea of Portland following the lead of Houston/DFW/Atlanta/Phoenix (or even Seattle, for that matter) is a nightmare for a lot of locals, rather than a desirable goal.
That's why Portland has crazy zoning/land use laws which limit growth, way more so than Sunbelt cities.

Portland would rather stop growth and construction and keep it's insanely high unemployment rate than allow more big box stores, chains, and suburban development and provide jobs.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacto View Post
That's why Portland has crazy zoning/land use laws which limit growth, way more so than Sunbelt cities.

Portland would rather stop growth and construction and keep it's insanely high unemployment rate than allow more big box stores, chains, and suburban development and provide jobs.
Then how do you explain all the construction going on both commercial and residential?
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minervah View Post
Then how do you explain all the construction going on both commercial and residential?
Hopefully it's enough to improve the economy there. For the longest time a lack of jobs has been the biggest downside to Portland.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:35 PM
 
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The Portland area's unemployment rate is estimated to be around 7.5% as of October 2012:

Unemployment Rates for Metropolitan Areas

That's not great, but it's far from the worst. It's actually lower than Atlanta, for example.

By saying:

Quote:
Portland would rather stop growth and construction and keep it's insanely high unemployment rate than allow more big box stores, chains, and suburban development and provide jobs.
You're kind of missing the point that many Portlanders don't really want lots of new growth. The psychology is different - there is a social value in stability, slow growth, and not striving to be at the head of the population/growth pack. A lot of Portlanders would much rather have slower growth and somewhat higher unemployment than rapid growth and lower unemployment. That's a quality-of-life question.

And it's not clear that the tradeoff you present is inevitable - the Vancouver, BC area has seen fairly swift growth since the 1990's, but not by sprawling ever outward. Even then, a lot of Vancouver old-timers are unhappy with that development - housing prices have spiked, there is more crowding, and so on.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cacto View Post
Hopefully it's enough to improve the economy there. For the longest time a lack of jobs has been the biggest downside to Portland.
Zoning in Portland permits large apartment buildings with tiny units to be squeezed in the city. Large office buildings downtown are going empty. It is the tax breaks and better deals that bring companies to other states that Oregon loses out on time and time again. These won't bring in more businesses. Oregon has not been able to compete enough with other states to give us a healthy enough economy to keep the unemployment figures down to a more managable level.

And we do have big box companies by the way.
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
And it's not clear that the tradeoff you present is inevitable - the Vancouver, BC area has seen fairly swift growth since the 1990's, but not by sprawling ever outward. Even then, a lot of Vancouver old-timers are unhappy with that development - housing prices have spiked, there is more crowding, and so on.
Yeah, although the high prices, while partially connected to zoning, is largely a real estate bubble powered by foreign investors, many from China, who were gambling on it for complex reasons. The prices are now coming back down.

What I will say is this: Vancouver can grow up because it has the infrastructure in place to allow it. Metro Portland, while the same size, does not have anywhere near the level of transit service or ridership that Metro Vancouver does. What they've done so far is admirable, but if they wish to develop in a way similar to Vancouver they'll have to do more to make transit so convenient that people will make the mode shift from autos.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:08 AM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIMBAM View Post
Yeah, although the high prices, while partially connected to zoning, is largely a real estate bubble powered by foreign investors, many from China, who were gambling on it for complex reasons. The prices are now coming back down.

What I will say is this: Vancouver can grow up because it has the infrastructure in place to allow it. Metro Portland, while the same size, does not have anywhere near the level of transit service or ridership that Metro Vancouver does. What they've done so far is admirable, but if they wish to develop in a way similar to Vancouver they'll have to do more to make transit so convenient that people will make the mode shift from autos.
Interesting you should say that at a time when unfortunately public transit in Portland is actually becoming less convenient in many areas. As one who has lived here car-less for 34 years, I can tell you it has become more difficult to get around on public transport these days.

Kinda getting OT here but actually if we are going to call a place a new anything I think it has to have the same amenities as the old. So if the sunbelt has good job opportunities, housing, public transportation etc. all things people look for if they are going to make a move then the place they are going to want to substitute should have it too. I don't know much about the sunbelt but I would imagine those things would be on the list of comparisions.

So not taking the weather into consideration which of course is very different, I don't think Portland fits the bill but I do think that Seattle might. Or Vancouver BC or perhaps maybe even Vancouver WA.

Last edited by Minervah; 12-18-2012 at 01:21 AM.. Reason: additional thought
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, New York
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I think that Portland's half suburb, half frenemy city of Vancouver, Washington will be the area that spurs the growth of Portland metro.

Washington's laws regarding pot and gay marriage will help Vancouver grow tremendously. Vancouver has less inhibitions regarding growth.
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Lakewood OH
21,699 posts, read 23,658,574 times
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Some years ago, Vancouver began building up its downtown very nicely. It routed its bus terminals all throughout the area in a very easy manner in which to get around, built nice housing and shopping areas. This is not a new phenomena. It's just that it is now getting press because of all the hoopla over the new marijuana and same-sex marriage laws having been passed in Washington.

I just hope it doesn't go from a nice little city to an over blown caricature of itself as some others in the area have become.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Just outside of Portland
4,622 posts, read 5,858,266 times
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Portland has to grow because the rest of the state is so distressed nobody can pay their taxes.
Contain all the new growth to the upper Willamette Valley, keep the rest of sane, normal Oregon safe from liberals and hipsters, and pay the bills at the same time.

Works for me.
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