U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-12-2012, 03:52 AM
 
824 posts, read 1,461,239 times
Reputation: 907

Advertisements

I remember those movies about the Gardian Angels having to go around the New York subway due to the high crime, or those vigilante movies starring Charles Bronson. I just saw the documentary Gangland New York on youtube, and they focused on those years and really looked like a war zone, even Manhattan. Mafia tycoons, drug dealers, criminals of all sorts did everything they wanted in streets of the big apple.

So I wonder if this situation was similar in the rest of the USA, or was just only a local New York thing, due to the particularities of this city: many people, huge inequality, racial tensions, drug and cash flow,etc.


PS, by the way, New York nowadays is a very safe and trendy place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-12-2012, 06:19 AM
 
21,182 posts, read 30,343,833 times
Reputation: 19590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javier77 View Post
I remember those movies about the Gardian Angels having to go around the New York subway due to the high crime, or those vigilante movies starring Charles Bronson. I just saw the documentary Gangland New York on youtube, and they focused on those years and really looked like a war zone, even Manhattan. Mafia tycoons, drug dealers, criminals of all sorts did everything they wanted in streets of the big apple.
The issue here is that you're basing reality on fiction or sensationalized events. Yes, parts of NYC were dangerous during that period but what you've seen isn't really reality-based. Manhattan in particular was still pretty close to what it is now, with the exception of Hell's Kitchen and Harlem. That was a rough period nonetheless and Manhattan certainly is much shinier than it was back then. Hell's Kitchen for instance has completely gentrified into high priced real estate and Harlem is quite a bit better but still not what one would call safe. Of the remaining boroughs the Bronx (South Bronx) was probably the most accurate in those portrayals, with parts of Brooklyn (Bed-Sty) also fitting that role. Queens and Staten Island have probably been the most consistent in terms of not having a really bad period. I don't think it was an issue nationwide, only in the more diverse neighborhoods within the major US cities of the time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2012, 06:42 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 3,847,635 times
Reputation: 1214
I've seen videos of Manhattan from the late 1980s and aside from Times Square being flasher, it more or less looks the same as it does a quarter century later.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2012, 06:52 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 3,847,635 times
Reputation: 1214
I actually think if you exclude cocaine-driven inner city crime, which let's face it, was mostly thugs killing other thugs, the difference between crime today and crime in the 1970s, '80s and early '90s is not very big. In fact in certain fields, such as random shootings, it seems like it's getting worse.

Six miles from where I live, there was a mall shooting. These kinds of random shootings seem to be an almost routine (don't want to say 'normal') occurrence in the United States these days. Seems not a year goes by without a couple of them. Then again on the other hand there don't seem to be as many serial killers, it seems like the Baby Boomers were the serial killer generation. Gen X and Y seem to be all about murder-suicide spree kills.

As far as things like rape, it's really difficult to say, I'm pretty sure reported rape and molestation have declined though then again, a high reported rape rate could also mean more people are reporting their assailants because the culture is less victim-blaming.

Youth violence was worst in the '90s and was increasing even as crime in general as falling, but now it's falling as well.

I think technology and gentrification are the reasons crime is falling, but it seems like random and freakish acts of violence are as prevalent as ever if not more so. I also think part of the reason crime started dropping in 1991 is because that is the point where Western society started to become more anti-social and people became wary of others more, so there's simply less opportunity for crime to occur since when people aren't interacting with each other, crime is simply much less likely.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2012, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,193 posts, read 10,407,297 times
Reputation: 11208
Aside from the fact Gangland is usually anywhere from slanted to downright lies, I'd say in the pre-crack era, New York was definitely one of the most dangerous cities in the US. But by the late 1980s, pretty much every city was blowing up with crime, and only those with amenities to offer yuppies & hipsters have bounced back.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2012, 09:38 AM
 
Location: New York NY
4,263 posts, read 6,341,777 times
Reputation: 9056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural510 View Post
Aside from the fact Gangland is usually anywhere from slanted to downright lies, I'd say in the pre-crack era, New York was definitely one of the most dangerous cities in the US. But by the late 1980s, pretty much every city was blowing up with crime, and only those with amenities to offer yuppies & hipsters have bounced back.
I think this is pretty close to the truth. During those years Philadelphia, St. Louis, Chicago, D.C., Miami, L.A., Boston and many other big cities had high (or higher) crime rates which were driven by the drug trade. New York was far from the only dangerous place, but because its the biggest city it garnered a disproportionate share of attention.

Interestingly, there is a lot more drug related crime now in rural areas, driven by the rise of meth and the pill mills. It may look bucolic, but there is a lot of crime and thuggish behavior stemming from that in parts of Appalachia, the deep South, and some parts of the southwest. But these are thinly populated areas and not so much on the media's radar. You hear about it, but nothing like the flood of stories that come out of big cities.

As to the only cities that came back are the ones catering to yuppies and hipsters, that's just plain ridiculous. There are plenty of cities that cater to these populations and are still in dire straits, drugs or not. Detroit is a basket case, Philly and St. Louis aren't a whole lot better, Cincinnatti is borderline, and I could go on (and you may not agree with these examples), but all those cities have the above-mentioned demographic. Urban revitalization is a complex thing. Eliminating high levels of drug-fueled crime is certainly part of it. But only part.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2012, 11:11 AM
 
824 posts, read 1,461,239 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post

I also think part of the reason crime started dropping in 1991 is because that is the point where Western society started to become more anti-social and people became wary of others more, so there's simply less opportunity for crime to occur since when people aren't interacting with each other, crime is simply much less likely.


So what exactly happened in 1991 that made people in the Western societies more anti-social?



But anyway, I don´t think crime has much to do with how social or anti-social a potencial victim could be.If you go walking down the street and a thug beats the hell out of you and runs away with your belongings, I don´t think he really cares much about your social skills.

In fact, I think it's the other way round, people with social skills can talk their way out of dangerous situation, meanwhile rude people end up luring violence towards them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2012, 11:46 AM
 
Location: 32°19'03.7"N 106°43'55.9"W
8,114 posts, read 17,319,771 times
Reputation: 7281
NYC as it appeared in 1972, in this memorable opening scene of Across 110th Street:


"Across 110th Street" (1972) opening REMIXED - YouTube
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2012, 02:54 PM
 
14,111 posts, read 22,744,391 times
Reputation: 4208
Quote:
Originally Posted by belmont22 View Post
I actually think if you exclude cocaine-driven inner city crime, which let's face it, was mostly thugs killing other thugs, the difference between crime today and crime in the 1970s, '80s and early '90s is not very big. In fact in certain fields, such as random shootings, it seems like it's getting worse.

Six miles from where I live, there was a mall shooting. These kinds of random shootings seem to be an almost routine (don't want to say 'normal') occurrence in the United States these days. Seems not a year goes by without a couple of them. Then again on the other hand there don't seem to be as many serial killers, it seems like the Baby Boomers were the serial killer generation. Gen X and Y seem to be all about murder-suicide spree kills.

As far as things like rape, it's really difficult to say, I'm pretty sure reported rape and molestation have declined though then again, a high reported rape rate could also mean more people are reporting their assailants because the culture is less victim-blaming.

Youth violence was worst in the '90s and was increasing even as crime in general as falling, but now it's falling as well.

I think technology and gentrification are the reasons crime is falling, but it seems like random and freakish acts of violence are as prevalent as ever if not more so. I also think part of the reason crime started dropping in 1991 is because that is the point where Western society started to become more anti-social and people became wary of others more, so there's simply less opportunity for crime to occur since when people aren't interacting with each other, crime is simply much less likely.
Never thought about it that way. That's kinda true. One man Serial Killing has gone down, as many Baby Boomers were serial killers. But killing sprees really are more prevalent among gen-x and my generation(gen-y). Some joke that all the crack from the 80's and 90's that was being done when gen-y were in our gestation period is now starting to manifest it's self with how crazy our generation is and how crappy the music is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2012, 03:02 PM
 
14,111 posts, read 22,744,391 times
Reputation: 4208
Murder has gone down, tremendously across the US urban areas. And NYC wasn't the only violent city back then, almost all cities in the us with a population above 80,000 experienced major crime problems due almost solely to the crack trade. Cities as big as LA, to towns as small as Delray Beach FL were considered "crack-town" USA. So those crimes have declined in alot of big cities. But at the same time, you have cities who only started reaching their "peaks" in the last 10 years. Like Orlando reached it's murder peak as recently as 2005. So in some cases, crime has just been pushed to areas that have previously been unknown as far as crime. There's a weird ghettoization of suburbia and rural areas. Crime in these areas seem to be getting higher. It seems like the birth of the ghetto "ex-burb" has kinda taken flight in the last 15yrs or so. Technically, we're not even in the post-crack cocaine era. There's still PLENTY of drug-dealers and dope fiends out there, they're just migrating to different areas. So in other words, we're not completely out of the woods yet. I'm not wearing doomsday glasses, but the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top