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Old 01-22-2013, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,604,351 times
Reputation: 36642

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
Likewise for boycotting travel to states that vote differently from you. I can understand many reasons for not visiting states (climate, location, expense, geography, interest, etc)...but politics? That's silly. As if everyone in the state shares those political views.
I can refuse to spend money in a state that will realize tax revenue from it and use that revenue for programs that are not consistent with and even destructive of what I believe to be the American way of life and liberty. People who live in that state have a vote, but I don't, so I have to find other ways of exercising democratic rights.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
1,985 posts, read 3,300,712 times
Reputation: 1705
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I can refuse to spend money in a state that will realize tax revenue from it and use that revenue for programs that are not consistent with and even destructive of what I believe to be the American way of life and liberty. People who live in that state have a vote, but I don't, so I have to find other ways of exercising democratic rights.
Oh get over yourself You really can't even boycott a state like California, Illinois, or New York. With most things you buy, somewhere down the line almost every product will be connected to those states in some way, whether it be directly or indirectly. There's no avoiding it so you can stop pretending like you are actually doing anything to hurt those states.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Hollywood Hills
217 posts, read 311,927 times
Reputation: 267
Why would i waste my time on doing something that stupid ?
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Franklin, TN
6,662 posts, read 13,267,193 times
Reputation: 7612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austinite101 View Post
Oh get over yourself You really can't even boycott a state like California, Illinois, or New York. With most things you buy, somewhere down the line almost every product will be connected to those states in some way, whether it be directly or indirectly. There's no avoiding it so you can stop pretending like you are actually doing anything to hurt those states.
This.

And if it's a public company, you also have to consider where the shareholders are from.

It's an exercise in futility, not democracy.

And punishing the employees of a company (that might be exactly like you!) for the sins of the state they live in is extremely petty.

You certainly have the "right" to do what you please, jtur. That doesn't make you righteous.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,604,351 times
Reputation: 36642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austinite101 View Post
Oh get over yourself You really can't even boycott a state like California, Illinois, or New York. With most things you buy, somewhere down the line almost every product will be connected to those states in some way, whether it be directly or indirectly. There's no avoiding it so you can stop pretending like you are actually doing anything to hurt those states.
I never implied that a boycott can reduce to absolute zero the benefits to any targeted state. But obviously, I can influence point-of-sale tax revenues of any state by selecting where to make retail purchases.

Did you vote in the last election? Oh Get over yourself -- stop pretending that you are actually doing anything to affect the public officeholders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post

It's an exercise in futility, not democracy.

And punishing the employees of a company (that might be exactly like you!) for the sins of the state they live in is extremely petty.

You certainly have the "right" to do what you please, jtur. That doesn't make you righteous.
Umm -- If it is an exercise in futility, please explain exactly how it punishes the workers. It either has an effect, or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.

While you are explaining things, you might explain how NOT doing what you believe is right DOES make one righteous.

Maybe, just maybe, you might like to address whether America "righteously" boycotting Cuba or Iraq punishes the citizens of the country for the sins of the government of their country. That's the narure of boycotting.

Last edited by jtur88; 01-23-2013 at 11:26 AM..
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Franklin, TN
6,662 posts, read 13,267,193 times
Reputation: 7612
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Umm -- If it is an exercise in futility, please explain exactly how it punishes the workers. It either has an effect, or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.
If it has an effect, you are punishing the state and the employees.

If it does not have an effect, you are punishing nobody (and it is therefore futile).

I'm not suggesting that you, directly, are costing anyone their job. But I would suggest that you, and others who "boycott" states probably hurt the individuals much more than the lawmakers.


For me -- if I enjoy a product, and it is high quality, I don't care where it's made or whether or not I agree with their politics.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Surprise, AZ
8,520 posts, read 10,041,663 times
Reputation: 7857
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I never implied that a boycott can reduce to absolute zero the benefits to any targeted state. But obviously, I can influence point-of-sale tax revenues of any state by selecting where to make retail purchases.

Did you vote in the last election? Oh Get over yourself -- stop pretending that you are actually doing anything to affect the public officeholders.


Umm -- If it is an exercise in futility, please explain exactly how it punishes the workers. It either has an effect, or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.

While you are explaining things, you might explain how NOT doing what you believe is right DOES make one righteous.

Maybe, just maybe, you might like to address whether America "righteously" boycotting Cuba or Iraq punishes the citizens of the country for the sins of the government of their country. That's the narure of boycotting.
I may not like everybody, but at least I try to give them the benefit of the doubt by allowing them to express themselves (for better or for worse). I thought we were allowed to do that in this country and I thought it was encouraged as well. I've actually learned quite a bit about myself from others who at first did not seem that similar to me and vice versa. If you close yourself off to anyone who isn't a carbon copy of yourself, how are you able to influence others? I personally believe that posivity goes a lot further than negativity.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,604,351 times
Reputation: 36642
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
If it has an effect, you are punishing the state and the employees.

If it does not have an effect, you are punishing nobody (and it is therefore futile).

I'm not suggesting that you, directly, are costing anyone their job. But I would suggest that you, and others who "boycott" states probably hurt the individuals much more than the lawmakers.


For me -- if I enjoy a product, and it is high quality, I don't care where it's made or whether or not I agree with their politics.
You don't get it. I want you to explain how my action cannot possibly be efficacious enough to have the desired effect, but runs the mortal risk of having the undesired effect. Sound's like a lot of wishful thinking on your part.
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Old 01-23-2013, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Franklin, TN
6,662 posts, read 13,267,193 times
Reputation: 7612
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
You don't get it. I want you to explain how my action cannot possibly be efficacious enough to have the desired effect, but runs the mortal risk of having the undesired effect. Sound's like a lot of wishful thinking on your part.
I do get it. It goes either way. Either it is effective and harms innocent people or it is ineffective and is a silly waste of time.

Regardless, I think it's a rather childish way to express your political views.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,579 posts, read 86,604,351 times
Reputation: 36642
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvols View Post
I do get it. It goes either way..
Correct. You (or somebody else ganging up on me) had said it only goes one way. Futile to expect a desired benefit, but effective enough to cause harm.

Quote:
Regardless, I think it's a rather childish way to express your political views.
I think casting one presidential vote out of 80,000,000 is a childish way to express a political view. Luckily, it is not the only way available to us. We can also deny a state some tax revenue with which to carry out its nefarious machinations. That must have some measurable effect, because if I illegally avoid paying it, somebody will go a great deal of trouble to chase me down in order to prosecute me and force me to pay it. Clearly not trivial at all. Hit them where it hurts.

Denying a state a few bucks in tax revenue has a lot more impact than voting for one of two indistinguishable candidates. Especially when I only do it to states that misuse their tax revenues, and systematically deny any assistance to those citizens most in need of it.

Last edited by jtur88; 01-23-2013 at 05:23 PM..
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