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Old 05-04-2015, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Rainy Ulster.
264 posts, read 204,749 times
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Oh aye, they were Scots or English or neither depending on the whim or the purse.
Like all frontier folk they exploited and robbed both sides and each other.
Handy when the two kingdoms were feuding, which was nearly always, but less so when James I (or VI, depending on your side of the border) took over as king of both.
As it happened the was an even wilder lawless land to pacify just 20 miles from the Scottish coast that had been ravaged by a century of Tudor/Irish warfare, so where the reivers were becoming a huge pain in James' backside on the mainland, they could be just the fight loving, truculent (& more importantly for him mainly protestant - at the very least not catholic) wild bastards that could do his work over there. Scots were already settling in large numbers in places like the population ravaged Ards peninsula and north Down and seemingly thriving, so it was no great deduction to "encourage" large numbers of the lowland and border families (not clans) like the Armstongs, Charltons, Robsons, Storeys, Maxwells, Kerrs, Reids and Grahams to seek their fortune a bit further west and take any disgruntlement at this out on any unfortunate natives.

Of course enough stayed behind to carry on their centuries old traditions, but this soon became unfeasible.
Though round here there is the unusual but not uncommon surname of Maharg or Meharg.
Enough of the Graham family stayed to carry on their old ways and with their kin in Ulster nearly undermined the new plantation's economy with smuggling and theft that James decreed that anyone bearing the surname Graham should be arrested or worse on sight. They got round this by just reversing the spelling of the surname and a new name appeared on official documents and church rolls.
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:47 AM
 
1,068 posts, read 735,605 times
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I`m not a Game of Thrones nut but I can see elements of the Stark clan in the reivers. That's my holiday book choice then ( No, not G O T)
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Old 05-04-2015, 02:34 PM
 
350 posts, read 607,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarringtonNI View Post

When the mass Irish emigration happened during the famine, as has been stated above, those who had settled in the US from Ulster still held little regard for the old foe and added the Scots to their name to differenciate between the two.
So it's the Scots-Irish themselves who add the Scots and not the government ?

I'm asking that because it doesn't seem like the term Scots-Irish is popular when you look at the census, even in Appalachia.

In 1980, Irish was the second largest ancestry among white southerners with 22 % who identifies as such.

In 1990, the places where most people are of Irish ancestry is the inland south where historically Scots-Irish settled and not Irish Catholics.





Scotch-Irish ancestry only make 3 or 4 % in Appalachian states while they should make around 20 %.
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Old 05-04-2015, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Rainy Ulster.
264 posts, read 204,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash XY View Post
So it's the Scots-Irish themselves who add the Scots and not the government ?

I'm asking that because it doesn't seem like the term Scots-Irish is popular when you look at the census, even in Appalachia.

In 1980, Irish was the second largest ancestry among white southerners with 22 % who identifies as such.

In 1990, the places where most people are of Irish ancestry is the inland south where historically Scots-Irish settled and not Irish Catholics.





Scotch-Irish only make 3 or 4 % in Appalachian states while they should make around 20 %
I'd guess that even by the 1840s if you asked them what they were they would have proudly said "American" than anything else.
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Old 05-04-2015, 02:48 PM
 
350 posts, read 607,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarringtonNI View Post
I'd guess that even by the 1840s if you asked them what they were they would have proudly said "American" than anything else.
I agree but after American ancestry, the high percentage of Irish ancestry compared to other ethnicities who were the first settlers (English and Scots-Irish) disturbs me a bit. That makes the census unreliable.
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Old 05-04-2015, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Rainy Ulster.
264 posts, read 204,749 times
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Just generations of disinterest and ignorance (in the proper meaning of 'not knowing' not anything derogatory).
If theyve heard from a grandparent or some such relative that their ancestors arrived over two centuries ago to the US from Ireland, then i would guess that the majority have little inclination to pursue the matter further, so just assume Irish.
Especially as they might naturally regard the most important facet of their ancestry as being whatever role they played in your revolution.Anything else or before would be very much of secondary importance.

Why would they know or care much about the political or ethnic and religious vicissitudes of a small damp island hundreds of years and thousands of miles away. All they have from that is maybe a surname or some shred of religious faith.
Ireland is just a name from the past. Northern Ireland or Ulster are probably things they have maybe heard of, more than likely not.
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Old 05-04-2015, 04:37 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,922,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarringtonNI View Post
Just generations of disinterest and ignorance (in the proper meaning of 'not knowing' not anything derogatory).
If theyve heard from a grandparent or some such relative that their ancestors arrived over two centuries ago to the US from Ireland, then i would guess that the majority have little inclination to pursue the matter further, so just assume Irish.
Especially as they might naturally regard the most important facet of their ancestry as being whatever role they played in your revolution.Anything else or before would be very much of secondary importance.

Why would they know or care much about the political or ethnic and religious vicissitudes of a small damp island hundreds of years and thousands of miles away. All they have from that is maybe a surname or some shred of religious faith.
Ireland is just a name from the past. Northern Ireland or Ulster are probably things they have maybe heard of, more than likely not.
I think you're underestimating the desire of Americans (even the "ignorant" ones) to know their origins. It's very popular right now to investigate one's ancestry.
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Old 05-04-2015, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Rainy Ulster.
264 posts, read 204,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeTarheel View Post
I think you're underestimating the desire of Americans (even the "ignorant" ones) to know their origins. It's very popular right now to investigate one's ancestry.
Oh I don't doubt that, I'm thinking more of before the current internet aided boon on geneology. The quoted census map & figures were from 1990 in pre internet days.
Even now,even though more and more people are tracing their ancestry, id say its still a small percentage of the population.
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Old 05-04-2015, 05:13 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,922,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarringtonNI View Post
Oh I don't doubt that, I'm thinking more of before the current internet aided boon on geneology. The quoted census map & figures were from 1990 in pre internet days.
Even now,even though more and more people are tracing their ancestry, id say its still a small percentage of the population.
Oh okay...I'm not sure about the small percentage today, but it was much harder pre-1990. I was lucky I had family member that traced my ancestry all the way back to Normandy in 900s AD.
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Old 05-05-2015, 05:25 AM
Status: "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,829 posts, read 21,132,956 times
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While the Scots Irish presence is stronger in Appalachian than in the lowland South that doesn't explain the cultural differences to me as much as topography does. Appalachian Whites also have a lot of English, Welsh, German, and French ancestry and most lowlanders some distant from the coast likely have Scots Irish branches as well. Many mining towns in Appalachia were and remain very diverse places with lots of names of Southern and Eastern Europe origin, even Christian Middle Eastern ones. The thing about Appalachia is transportation is much harder and until a couple generations ago many people there lived in a time warp. I suspect those thick Appalachian accents are more similar to how people talked 200 years ago than any other accent in America. You still hear words there that no one else uses, like referring to a group of people as "Fellers" (aka fellows).
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