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The census grouping is culturally numb though...there isn't a thing in the world Southern about Delaware.
If you get below the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal ("lower and slower" Delaware), it can be quite southern in places - as southern as the Eastern Shore of Maryland, which isn't surprising, given it's right next to it. That said, less than half of Delaware's population lives below the canal, so it's not what people think of typically.
The premise of the thread is wrong, however. Even if VA and NC stop being southern, they aren't gaining mid-Atlantic traits. They're gaining general American traits, because people move from all over. Northern Virginia isn't recognizably Mid-Atlantic - it could be anywhere. The same is true for DC and most of the DC suburbs in Maryland, which are either generic northern white culture, or southern-influenced black culture. Real Mid-Atlantic culture isn't really in view until you get to Annapolis and Baltimore.
Delaware and Maryland are not the south Atlantic. I need to start a petition to re-draw the map for the next census because using the Mason-Dixon line in the 21st century is just plain stupid, not to mention that the Mason Dixon line was only meant to settle a dispute between Maryland, PA, and DE.
I think this is a good idea. They should move Delaware, Maryland, the District of Columbia, West Virginia and Virginia from the South Atlantic States of the South to the Middle Atlantic States of the Northeast. The current northeast according to the census is smaller than Texas and California. Plus I would Place Kentucky in the Midwest for the next census because the Midwest map looks weird and the southern line for the Midwest actually goes up at KY/IL/MO border rather than going straight east. I would move Nevada from the Mountain states to the Pacific states since Nevada is in the Pacific Time Zone.
Culture is so fluid, rapidly changing, and impossible to put boundaries on that I think i'll stop bothering.
I'll let people call themselves whatever they please. This line-drawing is the cause of endless arguments on CD, with most threads never managing to find an answer or even remain civil during their course.
I know plenty of Marylanders and Virginians that call themselves Southern and have a Southern accent. (Myself included).
I know plenty that call themselves Northern or Mid-Atlantic and have a Midland Accent or a Mid-Atlantic Accent.
So i'm giving up on what they are and where the 'lines' are because it's pointless and by the time you have everyone agreeing on a new "South" culture will have shifted again and everyone will rush to reestablish clear-cut borders that do not exist in actuality.
To answer the OP, I am certain Mid-Atlantic culture will continue to spread into VA and NC. They are experiencing a great migration from the Mid-Atlanic and I don't see that ending soon.
I don't get the comparisons some people try to make between NC and VA... to some degree Southern Virginia is like North Carolina but even the metropolitan areas are very different.
The premise of the thread is wrong, however. Even if VA and NC stop being southern, they aren't gaining mid-Atlantic traits. They're gaining general American traits, because people move from all over. Northern Virginia isn't recognizably Mid-Atlantic - it could be anywhere. The same is true for DC and most of the DC suburbs in Maryland, which are either generic northern white culture, or southern-influenced black culture. Real Mid-Atlantic culture isn't really in view until you get to Annapolis and Baltimore.
Mid-Atlantic, first and foremost, is a geographic sub-region (with boundaries that are not well-defined at all). There's also "Mid-Atlantic" English that spans from South Jersey to Baltimore. What's Mid-Atlantic culture, though?
When people in Philly, South Jersey or perhaps even NYC say they're "Mid-Atlantic," they are talking about geography. The Census says we're in the Middle Atlantic and the people who are more knowledgeable about geography (i.e., City-Data posters) may use that term. But there's no concept of "Mid Atlantic culture" here.
In the DC area, "Mid Atlantic" more or less means "not southern and not northern." It's the area sandwiched between the North and South.
South of DC, "Mid Atlantic" seems to mean "not really southern anymore."
Mid-Atlantic, first and foremost, is a geographic sub-region (with boundaries that are not well-defined at all). There's also "Mid-Atlantic" English that spans from South Jersey to Baltimore. What's Mid-Atlantic culture, though?
When people in Philly, South Jersey or perhaps even NYC say they're "Mid-Atlantic," they are talking about geography. The Census says we're in the Middle Atlantic and the people who are more knowledgeable about geography (i.e., City-Data posters) may use that term. But there's no concept of "Mid Atlantic culture" here.
In the DC area, "Mid Atlantic" more or less means "not southern and not northern." It's the area sandwiched between the North and South.
South of DC, "Mid Atlantic" seems to mean "not really southern anymore."
This and the post two prior make a lot of sense
Bajan - question for you
If you were asked growing to say where you lived - region (not city) etc.
Would have said
PA
Mid Atlantic
Northeast
am curious
personally I would have and still would say NE - would say Philly first then NE then probably PA then probably Mid Atlantic
though geographically I alsways kind of thought NJ would be the center of the mid atlantic - a part of the larger NE
I think much of America (especially urban/metro areas) is becoming less and less provincial and parochial in culture, and this trend has come about because of people moving to different areas/in-migration patterns, suburbanization (and all that that entails...), as well as advances in technology, media, and communication.
In this case, I would say the same urban-rural divide applies. The urban areas become more "Northern" or "Mid-Atlantic", while the rural areas retain the Southern (and Appalachian in the western parts of VA and NC) culture.
This is right on cue.
I don't think of Mid-Atlantic as a culture, but merely a region. I would classify North Carolina as Mid-Atlantic with the exception of the western portion of the state which is Appalachian. I could say the same about western portions of Virginia.
Not necessarily reflective and/or parallel to state borders.
If you were asked growing to say where you lived - region (not city) etc.
Would have said
PA
Mid Atlantic
Northeast
am curious
personally I would have and still would say NE - would say Philly first then NE then probably PA then probably Mid Atlantic
though geographically I alsways kind of thought NJ would be the center of the mid atlantic - a part of the larger NE
Well, before C-D, I would have said "Northeast." If pressed again, I would have responded "East Coast." I think Mid-Atlantic would only occur to me if someone said "Is Philadelphia in the Mid Atlantic?" Then I'd probably think about it and say "Yeah." But then again, I'm not even sure if I knew about the different sub-regions of the U.S. before visiting C-D. I mean, isn't it funny that you can probably list off the population densities of 10-15 cities off the top of your head? If you asked the average person living in Philadelphia what its population density was, and then gave them boxes (1,000 to 3,000; 3001 to 5,000, etc.), I doubt many could get it right.
I don't get the comparisons some people try to make between NC and VA... to some degree Southern Virginia is like North Carolina but even the metropolitan areas are very different.
I don't think so. NoVa and the Triangle share a lot of similarities. The Tidewater region crosses the state line into NC and has similarities with Fayetteville in terms of the outsized military presence. Charlottesville, Chapel Hill, and Boone are all quintessential college towns. Winston-Salem is like a mini-Richmond in some respects. New Bern is very similar to colonial Williamsburg.
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Virginia and North Carolina, as a unit (not every individual region of those states, of course) seem to have always been "about to secede to 'The North'). The fact is that they have always been in a transition zone, similar to another broad swath of the country - most particularly the Ohio Valley and the Ozarks. Secondly is urbanization. In ALL regions, no matter where in the country they are (or the world, for that matter), larger communities have less in common culturally speaking than the surrounding countryside.
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