There's lot of Southern threads so let's talk about Northern! (suburbs, gas)
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This is all very interesting. I never thought of a Midwesterner as being " Northern" before since most places I have been in the Midwest and Northeast seem radically different. Not entirely so, I suppose, but it is funny to me since I have recently found out lots of people consider my state, Tennessee, to be Midwestern. I had heard people say that about Kentucky and West Virginia, and always knew those two are culturally almost identical to my home state through spending time with relatives in northern Kentucky, but I had never considered Tennessee getting lumped in with it before like that. Even so, though I have heard of KY, WV and TN being called Midwestern, I have never heard of them being described as Northern... Except maybe by Mississippians or Alabamians.
Well, this Board has a rather liberal bent to it. So if most people have a choice between the South, which is perceived as racist, conservative, redneck, slow and uneducated, and the Midwest, which is perceived as hard-working and more liberal, then people on C-D are going to choose the Midwest. If they have a choice between the Midwest, which is perceived as more small-townish and less sophisticated and cosmopolitan than the "North" or the "Northeast," they are going to choose the latter. I have even heard people say that South Carolina is no longer "southern," but instead "South Atlantic." And apparently the Mid-Atlantic region runs all the way down to Chapel Hill, NC. And some people will emphasize that Philadelphia and New Jersey are in the "Mid Atlantic" to try to strengthen that connection with the Northeast.
Even so, though I have heard of KY, WV and TN being called Midwestern, I have never heard of them being described as Northern... Except maybe by Mississippians or Alabamians.
TN midwestern? I've never heard it described as such, some people really stretch things I guess. TN is upper south.
Of course I don't consider the great plains states to be midwestern either. IMO MO, KY, and WV are border states while IN and OH are firmly in the midwest, in spite of claims of southern characteristics in the southern portions of those states.
TN midwestern? I've never heard it described as such, some people really stretch things I guess. TN is upper south.
Of course I don't consider the great plains states to be midwestern either. IMO MO, KY, and WV are border states while IN and OH are firmly in the midwest, in spite of claims of southern characteristics in the southern portions of those states.
You don't think you can squeeze Ohio in the Northeast based on its historical relationship with Connecticut?
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Originally Posted by Blink101
This is all very interesting. I never thought of a Midwesterner as being " Northern" before since most places I have been in the Midwest and Northeast seem radically different. Not entirely so, I suppose, but it is funny to me since I have recently found out lots of people consider my state, Tennessee, to be Midwestern. I had heard people say that about Kentucky and West Virginia, and always knew those two are culturally almost identical to my home state through spending time with relatives in northern Kentucky, but I had never considered Tennessee getting lumped in with it before like that. Even so, though I have heard of KY, WV and TN being called Midwestern, I have never heard of them being described as Northern... Except maybe by Mississippians or Alabamians.
I've never known anybody who thought Tennessee was Midwestern.
I've heard Kentucky being called Midwestern. I've heard West Virginia called Midwestern, Mid Atlantic, and yes, even northeastern.
As far as I'm concerned Kentucky is southern, though on the border. And West Virginia is a major cross-roads. I'd put northern WV in the northeast personally because it's more like Pennsylvania than Ohio.
Speaking of northeastern or not, I always personally considered Ohio to be split between the NE and the Midwest. Cleveland is so Northeastern in feel and culture, whereas Columbus and Cincinnati feel much more Midwestern.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by DubbleT
TN midwestern? I've never heard it described as such, some people really stretch things I guess. TN is upper south.
Of course I don't consider the great plains states to be midwestern either. IMO MO, KY, and WV are border states while IN and OH are firmly in the midwest, in spite of claims of southern characteristics in the southern portions of those states.
Missouri cannot be grouped in with Kentucky and West Virginia. It is a Midwestern state overall with about a third of it being Southern. Kentucky and West Virginia are majority Southern states. It's far from a questionable contest in all three of these states. St. Louis and Kansas City have nothing in common with Louisville or Charleston, West Virginia from a modern standpoint. And knowing TheMahValley, he'll stress commonalities between two cities that have very little in common. Ok, so Louisville's a river city...the similarities end there. Culturally, linguistically, and demographically Louisville is a Southern city, as is Lexington.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by DubbleT
I dunno. I grew up in the midwest and spent most of my adult life in the south. Have visited St Louis many times and while it doesn't have a strong southern vibe it doesn't feel entirely midwestern to me either. Not only do I think of it as the gateway to the west, I've also thought of it as a midpoint between north and south, not completely either one.
Your opinion is unsupported by culture, demographics, geography, and linguistics. You have no concept of the Midwest if you think St. Louis has to be considered 50% Southern. This forum is becoming filled with people who have no concept of reality. If St. Louis can't be considered Midwestern, than neither can Chicago. It's just that simple. End of story. St. Louis doesn't feel entirely Midwestern? How? Elaborate on what is supposed to feel Midwestern that St. Louis doesn't fit. If St. Louis isn't Midwestern and is a midpoint between North and South, then so is Indianapolis, Columbus, Cincinnati, and Kansas City. So if you're fine with being wrong, be my guest. I'll take facts over your opinions anyday. From a modern standpoint, St. Louis is absolutely, unquestionably Midwestern. Nothing Southern about it. At all. Any Southern characteristics it exhibits today were ones it picked up from the Great Migration. The 50% dividing line is well to the South of St. Louis.
So to everyone that thinks St. Louis is anything but midwestern, would you like to share some traits and characteristics as to why you believe that? It seems very cut and dry to me that St. Louis is solidly part of the Midwest. I don't even consider myself to be midwestern personally but I grew up 120 miles south of there. The St. Louis area always seemed to be much different and the people from there that moved down here were always easy to pick out by their obvious northern dialect and the way that they carried themselves.
And when I say northern dialect, I'm not even talking about lower midland. St. Louis is showing traits of the NCVS (Northern Cities Vowel Shift) which definitely links the city to Chicago and other cities on the Great Lakes.
Why do people on City-Data try like crazy to redraw or re-associate cultural boundaries? These places are what they are people...leave it the hell alone.
St. Louis=Midwest
KC=Midwest
Southern West Virginia=South
Northern West Virginia=Whatever PA is.
Missouri (w/o bootheel)=Midwest
Boothill of MO=Southern culturally but apart of a largely midwestern state
Kentucky=pretty much the south...anyone that says that KY is a largely midwestern state is retarded.
Tennessee= South....not a hard one.
NOVA=Mid Atlantic
DC=Mid Atlantic
Virginia (w/o NOVA)=South
Maryland=Mid-Atlantic
Indiana, Southeastern Kansas, Oklahoma= Southern traits? yep.....The South? Sorry...no.
Why do people on City-Data try like crazy to redraw or re-associate cultural boundaries? These places are what they are people...leave it the hell alone.
St. Louis=Northern
KC=Northern
Southern West Virginia=Eww
Northern West Virginia=Midwest
Missouri (w/o bootheel)=Northern
Boothill of MO= Yuck
Kentucky= Midwest
Tennessee= Mideast
NOVA=Northeast
DC=Northeast/New England/California
Virginia (w/o NOVA)=East Coast
Maryland=Northeast/Ohio
Indiana, Southeastern Kansas, Oklahoma= Southern traits? yep.....The South? Sorry...no.
As my dad always used to say....."It's good enough for government work."
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