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View Poll Results: Are Pittsburgh, Erie, and Buffalo Northeastern or Midwestern?
Northeastern 42 50.60%
Midwestern 10 12.05%
Mixed 31 37.35%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-18-2016, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Most posters here would probably say DC and Baltimore are culturally Northeastern. Yet those cities are geographically located in the South.

These cities have the reverse issue. They are geographically located in Northeastern states. But does being geographically located in a Northeastern state necessarily mean that they are culturally "Northeastern" or "Eastern" or "East Coast" or whatever? Or can they be similar to DC and Baltimore insofar as they are culturally distinct from the cities they share a region with?
If the majority of the population considers themselves to be Northeastern, I can't see why people who haven't lived in the area would know better than the locals. It isn't even a case like DC where you could arguably say that transplants have swamped the local culture and "shifted" the local affiliation.

There is arguably an "east coast" culture. But it can't be equated to Northeastern culture. Taken to its absurd conclusion, one would think that Maine, the most geographically Northeastern state in the U.S., isn't northeastern, given it's not cosmopolitan, rich, ethnically diverse, or especially well educated.

There certainly is no such thing as a Midwestern culture. There's no definition of what Midwestern culture means which isn't so hopelessly broad it also is inclusive of broad swathes of the Northeast and West, and perhaps even parts of the South. Worse, it's usually defined in a negative fashion - through the absence of "coastal" traits, or Southernisms. Really the U.S. has two distinct cultures - General American and Southern - which have many variants depending upon geography and social class.

Last edited by eschaton; 01-18-2016 at 06:54 PM..
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Old 01-19-2016, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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Pittsburgh shouldn't be clumped up with erie and buffalo.
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Old 01-19-2016, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Ohio, USA
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Everyone has their own definitions of Northeastern and Midwestern. There's New Englanders that don't even consider New York to be Northeastern.
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Old 01-19-2016, 10:34 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,139 posts, read 9,919,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
If the majority of the population considers themselves to be Northeastern, I can't see why people who haven't lived in the area would know better than the locals. It isn't even a case like DC where you could arguably say that transplants have swamped the local culture and "shifted" the local affiliation.

There is arguably an "east coast" culture. But it can't be equated to Northeastern culture. Taken to its absurd conclusion, one would think that Maine, the most geographically Northeastern state in the U.S., isn't northeastern, given it's not cosmopolitan, rich, ethnically diverse, or especially well educated.

There certainly is no such thing as a Midwestern culture. There's no definition of what Midwestern culture means which isn't so hopelessly broad it also is inclusive of broad swathes of the Northeast and West, and perhaps even parts of the South. Worse, it's usually defined in a negative fashion - through the absence of "coastal" traits, or Southernisms. Really the U.S. has two distinct cultures - General American and Southern - which have many variants depending upon geography and social class.
You cannot emphasize this enough.

This subject about Buffalo and Pittsburgh and sometimes even half of Pennsylvania or New York being Midwestern comes up occasionally. But in all the years I been on City-Data, I cannot recall a single person from western Pennsylvania or New York claiming it. I could be wrong, I do not read every thread or every post. But it seems that every person claiming Buffalo, Rochester, Erie etc is Midwestern does not actually live there.
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Old 01-19-2016, 11:46 AM
 
5,805 posts, read 8,571,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
You cannot emphasize this enough.

This subject about Buffalo and Pittsburgh and sometimes even half of Pennsylvania or New York being Midwestern comes up occasionally. But in all the years I been on City-Data, I cannot recall a single person from western Pennsylvania or New York claiming it. I could be wrong, I do not read every thread or every post. But it seems that every person claiming Buffalo, Rochester, Erie etc is Midwestern does not actually live there.
It mostly comes from Snobbish Coasters (Philly homers mostly) that feel some type of superior-ness to being associated with the Elusive Bos-Wash Corridor... And its mostly the Snobs on City Data ... In my time of living in both NYC and Philly very few people actually thought of Pittsburgh as being Midwestern. The few just thought of it as Midwestern because of the Hills... Actually Midwest is flatter than the Coastal Cities.

No-one absolutely No-One in Pittsburgh will tell you the city is Midwest. They don't even recognize it being of Appalachia decent either. 100% of the natives will tell you Northeast.

There are Truths then there are City Data Truths.
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Old 01-19-2016, 03:50 PM
 
215 posts, read 303,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
It mostly comes from Snobbish Coasters (Philly homers mostly) that feel some type of superior-ness to being associated with the Elusive Bos-Wash Corridor... And its mostly the Snobs on City Data ... In my time of living in both NYC and Philly very few people actually thought of Pittsburgh as being Midwestern. The few just thought of it as Midwestern because of the Hills... Actually Midwest is flatter than the Coastal Cities.

No-one absolutely No-One in Pittsburgh will tell you the city is Midwest. They don't even recognize it being of Appalachia decent either. 100% of the natives will tell you Northeast.

There are Truths then there are City Data Truths.


I could pretty much pretend this is my own post and just substitute Buffalo for Pittsburgh lol Nobody here refers to themselves as Midwesterners or Buffalo being midwest either. It's just extremely weird and really only something I see on this site.

A typical C-D post regarding Buffalo and Pittsburgh goes something like..

"Buffalo and Pittsburgh aren't Northeastern because they remind me of the MidWest" or "Pittsburgh and Buffalo are not Northeastern because they have a lot of the same traits as the Midwest" So basically if you remind someone of the Midwest or share some similarities, it must be the Midwest!!! Never mind geography or some other silly nonsense!!! If Buffalonian's refer to Soda as Pop like Midwesterners. then by golly they must be Midwest!! It's the stupidest effing thing ever. If I meet someone who reminds me of my sister..would that make her my sister? The mind boggles.

I really don't know why City Data seems to think only the coastal NE cities are Northeastern. It's a puzzle to me but I don't try to figure them out anymore.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Windsor Ontario/Colchester Ontario
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I truly doubt that anyone is saying these cities are actually in the Midwest, just that they may have some similarities with Midwest cities that are nearby, which I can see, as most areas that are border regions have this.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North 42 View Post
I truly doubt that anyone is saying these cities are actually in the Midwest, just that they may have some similarities with Midwest cities that are nearby, which I can see, as most areas that are border regions have this.
I can only speak for Pittsburgh, not Buffalo, but there really aren't that many cultural similarities to nearby cities. Youngstown to a degree, but it's just across the state line and has fallen into Pittsburgh's cultural orbit (similar to Erie - generations ago people in Erie had accents similar to Cleveland and Buffalo, but they shifted to Pittsburgh because it was the local "prestige" dialect.

There really is no cultural similarity between Cleveland and Pittsburgh, even though they are two hours apart. You'd need to drive all the way to Cincinnati to find a major city which shares cultural similarities with Pittsburgh - and it's essentially equidistant from Pittsburgh as Philly (around 15 miles closer).
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,273,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North 42 View Post
I truly doubt that anyone is saying these cities are actually in the Midwest, just that they may have some similarities with Midwest cities that are nearby, which I can see, as most areas that are border regions have this.
From FiveThirtyEight.

Quote:
Western Pennsylvania is culturally Midwestern, more socially conservative, and has moved toward the Republican Party. Politically, it looks like Ohio, with a solidly but not overwhelmingly Democratic city, Pittsburgh, surrounded by heavily Republican suburbs in Westmoreland and Butler Counties.
In Pennsylvania, the Democratic Lean Is Slight, but Durable | FiveThirtyEight

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I can only speak for Pittsburgh, not Buffalo, but there really aren't that many cultural similarities to nearby cities. Youngstown to a degree, but it's just across the state line and has fallen into Pittsburgh's cultural orbit (similar to Erie - generations ago people in Erie had accents similar to Cleveland and Buffalo, but they shifted to Pittsburgh because it was the local "prestige" dialect.

There really is no cultural similarity between Cleveland and Pittsburgh, even though they are two hours apart. You'd need to drive all the way to Cincinnati to find a major city which shares cultural similarities with Pittsburgh - and it's essentially equidistant from Pittsburgh as Philly (around 15 miles closer).
You seem to emphasize the linguistic/settlement differences between Cleveland and Pittsburgh a lot. If those two cities are radically different for those reasons, then are New York and Philadelphia radically different cities for the same reasons? Most people would probably say the two cities have a lot of similarities, and NYC is probably more likely to be paired with Philadelphia based on proximity alone, yet the two cities are very different in terms of their history, architecture, etc. Philadelphia was a Quaker/German city that had virtually no Yankee/Dutch influence whatsoever.

I see the linguistic/settlement difference between New York and Philadelphia very much the same way I see the linguistic/settlement difference between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. In other words, I don't see it being all that material in the year 2016. Sure, there are noticeable differences, but so what?
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:45 AM
 
56,737 posts, read 81,038,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North 42 View Post
I truly doubt that anyone is saying these cities are actually in the Midwest, just that they may have some similarities with Midwest cities that are nearby, which I can see, as most areas that are border regions have this.
I'd say that Buffalo has similarities to Great Lakes cities in the Midwest, but not to other Midwestern cities except for maybe St. Louis and Cincinnati.
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