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View Poll Results: Are Pittsburgh, Erie, and Buffalo Northeastern or Midwestern?
Northeastern 42 50.60%
Midwestern 10 12.05%
Mixed 31 37.35%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-20-2016, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I'd say that Buffalo has similarities to Great Lakes cities in the Midwest, but not to other Midwestern cities except for maybe St. Louis and Cincinnati.
A lot of posters say that the Great Lakes cities can't be compared to other cities in the Midwest too. The word "Midwest" seems to conjure images of flat land, cornfields and megachurches in the minds of most C-D posters. So people feel compelled to distinguish certain parts of the Midwest from those parts of the Midwest.

"Eastern," on the other hand, has much more positive connotations all around. When some people say "Eastern," I get the sense that they're not just talking about a geographical descriptor, but a cultural one as well.
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Old 01-20-2016, 09:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
A lot of posters say that the Great Lakes cities can't be compared to other cities in the Midwest too. The word "Midwest" seems to conjure images of flat land, cornfields and megachurches in the minds of most C-D posters. So people feel compelled to distinguish certain parts of the Midwest from those parts of the Midwest.

"Eastern," on the other hand, has much more positive connotations all around. When some people say "Eastern," I get the sense that they're not just talking about a geographical descriptor, but a cultural one as well.
Good points and I think the difference between the Great Lakes cities in the Midwest versus other Midwestern cities is a matter, generally, of age of development. There are exceptions like St Louis, Cincinnati and perhaps the Twin Cities, which are older River cities.

I think people to also keep migration/settlement patterns in mind, as that could give an idea about why certain cities are designed or built the way they are, as well as the type of people within cities/areas.
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Old 01-20-2016, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You seem to emphasize the linguistic/settlement differences between Cleveland and Pittsburgh a lot. If those two cities are radically different for those reasons, then are New York and Philadelphia radically different cities for the same reasons? Most people would probably say the two cities have a lot of similarities, and NYC is probably more likely to be paired with Philadelphia based on proximity alone, yet the two cities are very different in terms of their history, architecture, etc. Philadelphia was a Quaker/German city that had virtually no Yankee/Dutch influence whatsoever.

I see the linguistic/settlement difference between New York and Philadelphia very much the same way I see the linguistic/settlement difference between Cleveland and Pittsburgh. In other words, I don't see it being all that material in the year 2016. Sure, there are noticeable differences, but so what?
Similar to New Orleans, New York City is its own animal really - mainly because its local culture did not expand to the west. It didn't even expand much to the north actually - minus the influences of architecture through the Hudson Valley up to around Albany. The Upstate New York cities were all founded by New Englanders, who went on to settle the Upper Midwest as well. New York City is traditionally seen as a borderland between New England "Yankeedom" and the Midlands, but I'd argue it has more cultural similarities with Philly than it does with Boston.
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Old 01-20-2016, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Similar to New Orleans, New York City is its own animal really - mainly because its local culture did not expand to the west. It didn't even expand much to the north actually - minus the influences of architecture through the Hudson Valley up to around Albany. The Upstate New York cities were all founded by New Englanders, who went on to settle the Upper Midwest as well. New York City is traditionally seen as a borderland between New England "Yankeedom" and the Midlands, but I'd argue it has more cultural similarities with Philly than it does with Boston.
Regardless of whether it expanded or not, New York and Philadelphia have a very different type of accent, different architecture, etc. The New York metro is also significantly less German and English than the Philly metro. People still pair the two together despite these obvious differences.

So if that's the case, then why can't Cleveland and Pittsburgh be paired together? I think you see the differences between the two as HUGE differences whereas I'm not sure if other people see those differences the same way.
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Old 01-20-2016, 10:34 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Regardless of whether it expanded or not, New York and Philadelphia have a very different type of accent, different architecture, etc. The New York metro is also significantly less German and English than the Philly metro. People still pair the two together despite these obvious differences.
Weaker versions of the Philadelphia and New York City accent sound rather similar, IMO.
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Old 01-20-2016, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Regardless of whether it expanded or not, New York and Philadelphia have a very different type of accent, different architecture, etc. The New York metro is also significantly less German and English than the Philly metro. People still pair the two together despite these obvious differences.

So if that's the case, then why can't Cleveland and Pittsburgh be paired together? I think you see the differences between the two as HUGE differences whereas I'm not sure if other people see those differences the same way.
One of the main differences between NYC/Philly and Pittsburgh/Cleveland is the two metro areas grew together in the case of the former, but not the latter. I mean, Mercer County is defined as being part of the NYC CSA despite Newark being functionally more of a satellite city of Philadelphia. There's really nothing similar in terms of the "Cleveburgh" concept. The two cities are just relatively close to each other, and had a historic football rivalry.
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Old 01-20-2016, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by nei View Post
Weaker versions of the Philadelphia and New York City accent sound rather similar, IMO.
Not really. Especially outside of Italians.
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Old 01-20-2016, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
One of the main differences between NYC/Philly and Pittsburgh/Cleveland is the two metro areas grew together in the case of the former, but not the latter. I mean, Mercer County is defined as being part of the NYC CSA despite Newark being functionally more of a satellite city of Philadelphia. There's really nothing similar in terms of the "Cleveburgh" concept. The two cities are just relatively close to each other, and had a historic football rivalry.
But what does that have to do with the associations people make in 2016? Baltimore had a 100 year head start on DC. That doesn't stop people from grouping the two together. Most people are going to group cities together on the basis of geographic proximity.
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Old 01-20-2016, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But what does that have to do with the associations people make in 2016? Baltimore had a 100 year head start on DC. That doesn't stop people from grouping the two together. Most people are going to group cities together on the basis of geographic proximity.
Yes, but as I said "most people" have no familiarity with the region. Why should the opinions of "most people" trump what the actual residents think?

Bakersfield is near Los Angeles. Louisville is near Cincinnati. Fort Meyers is near Miami. Scranton is near Allentown. Colorado Springs is near Denver. Topeka is near Tulsa. In all cases the first isn't really all that similar to the second however, despite that proximity.
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Old 01-20-2016, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Yes, but as I said "most people" have no familiarity with the region. Why should the opinions of "most people" trump what the actual residents think?
Bakersfield is near Los Angeles. Louisville is near Cincinnati. Fort Meyers is near Miami. Scranton is near Allentown. Colorado Springs is near Denver. Topeka is near Tulsa. In all cases the first isn't really all that similar to the second however, despite that proximity.[/quote]

I honestly don't see any of those places as being that different. There are differences, sure, but I think of all of them as somewhat similar places.

I think there's a strong aversion among Pittsburgh forumers to the Midwest. Or at least with Cleveland. And I say that because there's a greater willingness to pair Pittsburgh with Washington, DC, which has all the same glaring differences from Pittsburgh, if not more, as Cleveland does. If Cleveland had a better reputation, then I suppose there wouldn't be as herculean an effort among Pittsburgh posters to distance themselves from that city.
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