U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Are Pittsburgh, Erie, and Buffalo Northeastern or Midwestern?
Northeastern 42 50.60%
Midwestern 10 12.05%
Mixed 31 37.35%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-21-2016, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,888 posts, read 10,411,876 times
Reputation: 8055

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
No, because SF has many more influences in comparison to those Midwestern areas.

I think those that may "resent" being in either are rural folks. With that said, it still doesn't make any of the three cities in question anything else, but Northeastern.

Aren't Norfolk, Charleston, Savannah, Miami, Jacksonville and even Richmond "East Coast" as well?
I think so, but many times "East Coast" is used in a way that excludes the entire Southern/Middle coast.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-21-2016, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,304 posts, read 26,308,417 times
Reputation: 11754
I'd probably also include metros that witnessed steep population declines after 1970 and have stagnant population growth today.

Historical Metropolitan Populations of the United States - Peakbagger.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2016, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,456 posts, read 11,963,283 times
Reputation: 10567
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I think it stems in part from the fact that what people label as "the Interior Northeast" is not that distinct from Eastern Ohio and some part of the Upper Midwest. I also think being in the core of the Industrial Rust Belt plays a large role as well. Actually, that's one of the biggest associations people make with the Midwest (aside from farmland): tons and tons of White working class people (steel mills, auto manufacturers, etc.).
The Rust Belt used to be considered to include Boston though. And a lot of definitions of it still include portions of the mid-Atlantic.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
Don't people in Pittsburgh/Buffalo/Erie call soda "pop"? Mmmh...
And people in Milwaukee and Saint Louis call it Soda. Are they part of the Northeast?



Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I don't know if anyone is offended, but like you said, people from those areas would say that they are from the Northeast.
I just remembered, going to school in Massachusetts I would often run into people who would explain that Connecticut wasn't "really New England" - it was actually part of New York. Now, I wasn't native born in Connecticut, so it didn't really rankle me, but I could see it doing so if I was.

Similarly, I know there are a lot of people from who explain that state X isn't "really Southern" - to the ridiculous lengths of considering Tennessee part of the Midwest sometimes.

I think a lot of it boils down to when someone says you aren't "really something" they are often excluding you from a label they use to define themselves. Hence the implication is that you're not good enough to be in the same classification that they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I can come up with a few things people might think of being "Midwestern" or at least associated more with the Upper Midwest cities.
What's your definition of the Upper Midwest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
-Steel and auto industry
Guilty as charged. Of course, there's a Upper Midwestern cities which aren't, like Minneapolis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
-White working class
This exists pretty much everywhere in the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
-Fewer "latte" liberals
I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh has more of these, measured as both an absolute number and a percentage of the population, than mid-sized Northeast Corridor cities like Newark, Jersey City, Yonkers, and Worcester. It possibly has more than Baltimore even - the gentrified neighborhoods are about equal in terms of population. The overall white population is certainly around 15,000 higher than Baltimore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
-More conservative Republicans
Not a distinctly Midwestern trait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
-"Humility"
Definitely not a trait I'd associate with Pittsburgh. Not in the slightest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2016, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,304 posts, read 26,308,417 times
Reputation: 11754
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
The Rust Belt used to be considered to include Boston though. And a lot of definitions of it still include portions of the mid-Atlantic.
I said the "core" of the Rust Belt. That's why metro Pittsburgh and Detroit's population collapsed after 1970 while Boston's did not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
What's your definition of the Upper Midwest?
I was thinking primarily of Michigan, Wisconsin and the upper reaches of Illinois and Ohio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Guilty as charged. Of course, there's a Upper Midwestern cities which aren't, like Minneapolis.
Exceptions to every rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
This exists pretty much everywhere in the country.
Black people also exist pretty much everywhere in the country. The question is one of degree, not absolutes. Compared to virtually every part of the country, non-Hispanic White educational attainment is lower in the core Rust Belt cities (Chicago excepted).

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Not a distinctly Midwestern trait.
Compared to the Coast, yes it is. The Midwest has Republicans that are more conservative than the Republicans along the East Coast but less conservative than Republicans in the South.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Definitely not a trait I'd associate with Pittsburgh. Not in the slightest.
Why not?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2016, 12:15 PM
 
56,780 posts, read 81,149,048 times
Reputation: 12563
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Because they have similarities like heavy industry, a large White working class, more conservative Republicans, etc. In that sense, Pittsburgh and Buffalo have a lot in common with cities like Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, etc. That's generally why those types of cities get grouped together. They were all part of the country's industrial heartland.
The post above pretty much covers it, but you are equating Great Lakes with Midwestern and that isn't synonymous.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2016, 12:24 PM
 
56,780 posts, read 81,149,048 times
Reputation: 12563
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Such as?

It's not like the Upper Midwest is 50% Yankee stock. Most of Wisconsin is people of German extraction who had little to no connection to any Northeastern state. Then you have Poles, Irish, Italians, Blacks, etc.
For one, SF's Asian influence came directly from Asia and makes up a large portion of that city. Its Hispanic/Latino influence is largely Mexican and has either been there well before there was a United States and from locations to the south(other parts of CA, Mexico, etc.).

Also, I didn't mention Wisconsin, but was talking about Northeastern OH and MI.

Speaking of ethnic groups and Hispanics/Latinos specifically, all 3 of these cities are likely going to have Puerto Rican communities. In fact, NE OH is more likely to have PR's in comparison to other areas in the Midwest, with exceptions to lesser degrees in Chicago and Milwaukee.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2016, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,304 posts, read 26,308,417 times
Reputation: 11754
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh has more of these, measured as both an absolute number and a percentage of the population, than mid-sized Northeast Corridor cities like Newark, Jersey City, Yonkers, and Worcester. It possibly has more than Baltimore even - the gentrified neighborhoods are about equal in terms of population. The overall white population is certainly around 15,000 higher than Baltimore.
Are you serious? The fact you have to resort to small cities and/or cities that are part of a much larger MSA (Yonkers?) says it all.

I'm not talking about city propers. I'm talking about metro areas. And I don't know of anyone who thinks of Pittsburgh as a latte liberal haven.

Educational Attainment by MSA (Non-Hispanic White)

Boston - 47.6%
New York - 43.3%
Philadelphia - 39.0%
Milwaukee - 37.5%
St. Louis - 34.2%
Cleveland - 32.7%
Cincinnati - 32.3%
Buffalo - 31.6%
Detroit - 31.3%
Pittsburgh - 31.2%

Non-Hispanic White educational attainment is lower in Cleveland, Detroit and Pittsburgh than it is in similar size Southern metros.

Richmond - 39.4%
Memphis - 34.3%
New Orleans - 33.9%
Nashville - 33.3%

The fact is that this part of the country (the Midwest) was the most blue-collar of any part of the country. The educational attainment rates reflect that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2016, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,888 posts, read 10,411,876 times
Reputation: 8055
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
The Rust Belt used to be considered to include Boston though. And a lot of definitions of it still include portions of the mid-Atlantic.


And people in Milwaukee and Saint Louis call it Soda. Are they part of the Northeast?

The map shows that to be an obvious exception to the rule. Overwhelmingly, The Northeast and Midwest are divided among Soda or Pop. And as it pertains to this discussion, Pittsburgh/Buffalo/Erie clearly have some linguistic influence from The Midwest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2016, 12:37 PM
 
56,780 posts, read 81,149,048 times
Reputation: 12563
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Are you serious? The fact you have to resort to small cities and/or cities that are part of a much larger MSA (Yonkers?) says it all.

I'm not talking about city propers. I'm talking about metro areas. And I don't know of anyone who thinks of Pittsburgh as a latte liberal haven.

Educational Attainment by MSA (Non-Hispanic White)

Boston - 47.6%
New York - 43.3%
Philadelphia - 39.0%
Milwaukee - 37.5%
St. Louis - 34.2%
Cleveland - 32.7%
Cincinnati - 32.3%
Buffalo - 31.6%
Detroit - 31.3%
Pittsburgh - 31.2%

Non-Hispanic White educational attainment is lower in Cleveland, Detroit and Pittsburgh than it is in similar size Southern metros.

Richmond - 39.4%
Memphis - 34.3%
New Orleans - 33.9%
Nashville - 33.3%

The fact is that this part of the country (the Midwest) was the most blue-collar of any part of the country. The educational attainment rates reflect that.
I wonder how much of the Southern metro figures are attributed to migrants versus the real/perceived character of those metros?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2016, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,304 posts, read 26,308,417 times
Reputation: 11754
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
For one, SF's Asian influence came directly from Asia and makes up a large portion of that city. Its Hispanic/Latino influence is largely Mexican and has either been there well before there was a United States and from locations to the south(other parts of CA, Mexico, etc.).
San Francisco was 95% non-Hispanic White in 1930 (Mexicans were not considered White in the 1930 Census). It is an extremely diverse city now but that wasn't always the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Also, I didn't mention Wisconsin, but was talking about Northeastern OH and MI.
Those places are also very German.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Speaking of ethnic groups and Hispanics/Latinos specifically, all 3 of these cities are likely going to have Puerto Rican communities. In fact, NE OH is more likely to have PR's in comparison to other areas in the Midwest, with exceptions to lesser degrees in Chicago and Milwaukee.
Pittsburgh hardly has any Puerto Ricans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top