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View Poll Results: Are Pittsburgh, Erie, and Buffalo Northeastern or Midwestern?
Northeastern 42 50.60%
Midwestern 10 12.05%
Mixed 31 37.35%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-23-2016, 01:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Probably Buffalo but I would imagine all of them have tiny West Indian populations.
Buffalo is likely to get people from nearby Ontario cities/areas, NYC college students and some that move there that are of Caribbean descent. It won't be like NYC or Boston, but they are there and in other Upstate NY cities. This is an example of how geography is an important aspect, as the way NYS is configured plays a part in why this is or is at least perceived to be the case.

While this isn't Buffalo, here is a list of restaurants in Rochester: Caribbean Food - Rochester Wiki
Pop Style International - Rochester Wiki
D & L Groceries - Rochester Wiki

From Buffalo: http://m.yelp.com/search?find_desc=c...size=320%2C330

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 01-23-2016 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 01-23-2016, 01:14 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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The problem with trying to decide regions with just using population; Irish, German, Jewish, Black, Italian etc. to describe whether a area is eastern, northern, southern etc. is that populations are in a constant state of change. For instance, southern New England would not be New England if we still described New England by its year 1800 population. Not to say never look at population just don't overemphasize it.
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Old 01-23-2016, 01:21 PM
 
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Ancient websites on how to be auto-free in Cleveland and Buffalo. Pretty detailed assessment of neighborhoods, suburbs and urban form:

Auto-Free In Cleveland

Auto-Free In Buffalo: A Guide To Buffalo's Neighborhoods And Public Transportation

One difference he notes is that fewer affluent people live in Cleveland proper than in Buffalo:

Quote:
Generally, few affluent people live anywhere in the city of Cleveland. In my old Cleveland law firm about 10% did (admittedly more than in a Newark or Detroit); in Buffalo (my new home) the equivalent number hovers around 30%. Cleveland's downtown has improved significantly in recent decades; I cannot say the same about most other neighborhoods in the city.
On the other hand, the most interesting parts of Cleveland's inner ring suburbs are glorious: afflulent, but more transit-oriented and densely populated than most cities' suburbs -- for example, Lakewood's Gold Coast (a dozen blocks of high rises along Lake Erie) and Shaker Heights along the Green Line (nice old houses along the train line).
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Old 01-23-2016, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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People often say the East or the East Coast has more "attitude" relative to the Midwest. How does the attitude of Detroit and Cleveland differ from Pittsburgh and Buffalo?

I always think of Detroit as having the most "tood" of all these cities. Bad Boys Pistons, Kronk fighters, Rumble in the Palace, etc.
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Old 01-23-2016, 01:32 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Eschaton showed a couple of maps of the Pittsburgh area that are pretty interesting.

One shows the community boundaries when some of the suburbs are perfectly equal sized townships with nice even borders. I am talking about suburbs like Marshall, Pine and Richland townships. That is NOT a East coast thing where one town maybe much larger then its neighbor. Rather it is a sign that the area was formed after the Revolution when people wanted to rationalize their communities and is common to the Midwest.

On the other hand, I noticed that almost all the suburbs around Pittsburgh are not cities, except for a few small ones south of Pittsburgh. Most are townships or boroughs. That is definitely a Northern thing, in contrast most suburbs in Florida or California are cities.
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Old 01-23-2016, 01:53 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Eschaton showed a couple of maps of the Pittsburgh area that are pretty interesting.

One shows the community boundaries when some of the suburbs are perfectly equal sized townships with nice even borders. I am talking about suburbs like Marshall, Pine and Richland townships. That is NOT a East coast thing where one town maybe much larger then its neighbor. Rather it is a sign that the area was formed after the Revolution when people wanted to rationalize their communities and is common to the Midwest.

On the other hand, I noticed that almost all the suburbs around Pittsburgh are not cities, except for a few small ones south of Pittsburgh. Most are townships or boroughs. That is definitely a Northern thing, in contrast most suburbs in Florida or California are cities.
First of all, it's not that uniform. And you did leave off a few burbs, such as Fox Chapel, O'Hara, all these little burbs that don't even have names on this map.

A borough is a form of government similar to a city. They have a mayor/council form of government, unlike a township. See this: http://www.psats.org/ckfinder/userfi...tes%5B1%5D.pdf

Here's another interesting website: http://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsbur...nt?oid=1335545
Do note this: "The Pennsylvania State Association of Township Supervisors notes that “Townships are the oldest form of organized government in the United States,” having been brought to our shores by the Pilgrims." New Jersey has a lot of townships, too. It's not just a post-revolution thing.
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Old 01-23-2016, 02:04 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
First of all, it's not that uniform. And you did leave off a few burbs, such as Fox Chapel, O'Hara, all these little burbs that don't even have names on this map.
It looks like a mix from eschaton's map, but those regular shaped suburban townships? with almost rectangular borders looks different from what's typical of the coastal northeast. Here's Allegheny County:



and Lancaster County (eastern Pennsylvania)



via wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancas...hip_Labels.png

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...hip_Labels.png

Quote:
A borough is a form of government similar to a city. They have a mayor/council form of government, unlike a township. See this: http://www.psats.org/ckfinder/userfi...tes%5B1%5D.pdf
I'll add that while New England suburbs usually aren't cities, they are "towns" which have as much independent political power as cities do.
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Old 01-23-2016, 02:14 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
Ancient websites on how to be auto-free in Cleveland and Buffalo. Pretty detailed assessment of neighborhoods, suburbs and urban form:

Auto-Free In Cleveland

Auto-Free In Buffalo: A Guide To Buffalo's Neighborhoods And Public Transportation
Interesting read; well I only read the Buffalo description. Amused at this line about downtown:

If you want to escape from the urban bustle, don't go to the country; hang out around Main Street or its neighboring streets at 9 or 10 PM.
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Old 01-23-2016, 02:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Interesting read; well I only read the Buffalo description. Amused at this line about downtown:

If you want to escape from the urban bustle, don't go to the country; hang out around Main Street or its neighboring streets at 9 or 10 PM.
I'm wondering where on Main Street, as the part near Canisius College and the University of Buffalo(University Heights neighborhood) have some activity.
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Old 01-23-2016, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
The Corner Side Yard: The "Five Midwests" Series, Part 6: The Plains

This author made a series of articles dividing the Midwest in different regions; he included western NY in the "Lower Lakes" region.
I've seen this before. I disagree with his categorization. If Pittsburgh fits anywhere, it's in the "Midland Valley" region.

Interestingly, even though he claims Pittsburgh is in the Lower Lakes region, the map he drew doesn't actually include Pittsburgh in it. It seems to end somewhere to the north, in Butler County. Maybe it's just an oversight on his part - I presume he knows how to read a google map. But I do wonder if he unconsciously thinks Pittsburgh is further north than it is. I can drive to West Virginia in less than an hour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
And as nei said, state lines really have nothing to do with where most people believe the South begins in 2016. So if the "South" is not restricted by state borders, then there's no reason why the Midwest/Northeast should be either.
I'm pretty much done engaging with you on this topic. You're basically trolling, even if you're doing it in a polite and intelligent manner, insofar as you're continuing to press arguments you seriously do not seriously believe in order to further prolong discussion.

I will say, however, the clear difference between arguments about the boundaries of the "real" South versus the "real" Midwest is absolutely everyone agrees that something called Southern culture exists. There's no definitive Midwestern (or Northeastern) culture which binds each region together, no matter how you try to define them. There's a general "northern" culture which has different local and regional elaborations. The regional elaborations tend to spread across regions rather than within them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Eschaton showed a couple of maps of the Pittsburgh area that are pretty interesting.

One shows the community boundaries when some of the suburbs are perfectly equal sized townships with nice even borders. I am talking about suburbs like Marshall, Pine and Richland townships. That is NOT a East coast thing where one town maybe much larger then its neighbor. Rather it is a sign that the area was formed after the Revolution when people wanted to rationalize their communities and is common to the Midwest.

On the other hand, I noticed that almost all the suburbs around Pittsburgh are not cities, except for a few small ones south of Pittsburgh. Most are townships or boroughs. That is definitely a Northern thing, in contrast most suburbs in Florida or California are cities.
Yes. Pennsylvania's local form of government is functionally speaking nearly identical to New Jersey. This means that even though townships are technically unincorporated, they functionally speaking have been given a lot of home rule powers, particularly in suburban areas. This is different from the Midwest, where my understanding is most townships are "survey townships" which functionally speaking have limited - or even no - governmental powers.

Square townships basically exist in Pittsburgh's hinterland everywhere north of the city, all the way to Erie. Townships to the south are irregular, which makes sense, because this area was settled earlier (Fayette County had its present borders by 1787, while other western PA counties were still gigantic and hadn't been subdivided.

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