U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Are Pittsburgh, Erie, and Buffalo Northeastern or Midwestern?
Northeastern 42 50.60%
Midwestern 10 12.05%
Mixed 31 37.35%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-23-2016, 02:42 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 2,749,478 times
Reputation: 926

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Buffalo is likely to get people from nearby Ontario cities/areas, NYC college students and some that move there that are of Caribbean descent.
I don't think there are any real ties between the Black communities in Buffalo with those over the border. The Niagara region of Ontario doesn't much of a Black population and I don't think too many Caribbean origin Torontonians end up in Buffalo.

It's a bit different around Windsor - where there is a long-standing Black population of African American origin - with Detroit and Michigan.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-23-2016, 03:05 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,987 posts, read 102,540,351 times
Reputation: 33045
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I've seen this before. I disagree with his categorization. If Pittsburgh fits anywhere, it's in the "Midland Valley" region.

Interestingly, even though he claims Pittsburgh is in the Lower Lakes region, the map he drew doesn't actually include Pittsburgh in it. It seems to end somewhere to the north, in Butler County. Maybe it's just an oversight on his part - I presume he knows how to read a google map. But I do wonder if he unconsciously thinks Pittsburgh is further north than it is. I can drive to West Virginia in less than an hour.



I'm pretty much done engaging with you on this topic. You're basically trolling, even if you're doing it in a polite and intelligent manner, insofar as you're continuing to press arguments you seriously do not seriously believe in order to further prolong discussion.

I will say, however, the clear difference between arguments about the boundaries of the "real" South versus the "real" Midwest is absolutely everyone agrees that something called Southern culture exists. There's no definitive Midwestern (or Northeastern) culture which binds each region together, no matter how you try to define them. There's a general "northern" culture which has different local and regional elaborations. The regional elaborations tend to spread across regions rather than within them.



Yes. Pennsylvania's local form of government is functionally speaking nearly identical to New Jersey. This means that even though townships are technically unincorporated, they functionally speaking have been given a lot of home rule powers, particularly in suburban areas. This is different from the Midwest, where my understanding is most townships are "survey townships" which functionally speaking have limited - or even no - governmental powers.

Square townships basically exist in Pittsburgh's hinterland everywhere north of the city, all the way to Erie. Townships to the south are irregular, which makes sense, because this area was settled earlier (Fayette County had its present borders by 1787, while other western PA counties were still gigantic and hadn't been subdivided.
I agree with most of what you said, but townships are incorporated. You should read my links. They are protected against forced annexation, etc. Townships in Illinois have some powers. I once worked for a health department in IL that was actually part of township government. Local Government Division
"By statute, three services are to be provided by townships: a general assistance program to qualifying residents, property assessment, and maintenance of township roads and bridges. General assistance at the township level provides immediate help to the destitute, according to local standards and needs and with local dollars. Accurate property assessments provide income through tax levies for all local governments. ... But beyond these mandated functions, many townships offer a variety of social services designed to improve life for their township residents, including senior citizen and youth programs, transportation, and cemetery maintenance."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2016, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,251 posts, read 26,220,119 times
Reputation: 11706
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I'm pretty much done engaging with you on this topic. You're basically trolling, even if you're doing it in a polite and intelligent manner, insofar as you're continuing to press arguments you seriously do not seriously believe in order to further prolong discussion.

I will say, however, the clear difference between arguments about the boundaries of the "real" South versus the "real" Midwest is absolutely everyone agrees that something called Southern culture exists. There's no definitive Midwestern (or Northeastern) culture which binds each region together, no matter how you try to define them. There's a general "northern" culture which has different local and regional elaborations. The regional elaborations tend to spread across regions rather than within them.
So what are the major differences between the cities in Midwestern Great Lakes cities and the cities of the Interior Northeast?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2016, 03:53 PM
 
215 posts, read 302,917 times
Reputation: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
For whatever, I think of old industrial cities at least as much as farm belt.



I haven't been all the way to Buffalo except as a child, but in my experience upstaters don't really identify much the coastal Northeast, and just thinks of itself as "upstate". The Hudson Valley including the Albany region feels like it has a bit of connection with New England across the border. Long Island often seemed more familiar with western Massachusetts than much of upstate despite being in the state. It's one of the more oddly shaped states

Going by gradual change going west, though from the coast Northeast might visit western New York and feel like it's midwestern; while those from say, Wisconsin would think it's very obviously Northeastern. In the reverse direction, there are posters from the (western part of the) Midwest* who say Northeast Ohio feels like the Northeast, which sounds absurd to me.

*As well as a few Cleveland boosters who for whatever like to think of their area as Northeast

Meant to include this link with my previous post:

New England vs. Midwest Culture

I like the geography comparisons, not sure if I agree with the conclusions
I'm going to stop you right there NEI. Buffalo does NOT consider itself "upstate". We refer to ourselves as WNY'ers(Western New Yorkers) and consider that different than upstate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2016, 03:54 PM
 
56,533 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12482
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
I don't think there are any real ties between the Black communities in Buffalo with those over the border. The Niagara region of Ontario doesn't much of a Black population and I don't think too many Caribbean origin Torontonians end up in Buffalo.

It's a bit different around Windsor - where there is a long-standing Black population of African American origin - with Detroit and Michigan.
Niagara Falls, Saint Catherines and Hamilton have Black populations that have been around for a long tome as well. WBLK 93.7 would have club nights at certain spots in that area of Ontario and it is a radio station that had/has listeners from the GTA. Toronto | 93.7 WBLK Radio

Buffalo Events | 93.7 WBLK Radio - Part 25

I also don't think it is a coincidence that Flow 93.5 in Toronto, Canada's first urban format station is the next station on the dial, as the government wants Canadians to get the maximum Canadian artist content possible.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 01-23-2016 at 04:16 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2016, 03:58 PM
 
56,533 posts, read 80,824,285 times
Reputation: 12482
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggie75 View Post
I'm going to stop you right there NEI. Buffalo does NOT consider itself "upstate". We refer to ourselves as WNY'ers(Western New Yorkers) and consider that different than upstate.
It is a sub region of Upstate NY. In the Syracuse and Utica-Rome areas, they say Central NY or even the Mohawk Valley in the case of Utica-Rome. Some use the Finger Lakes, which can include parts of the Syracuse and Rochester areas. They are just subregions of Upstate NY, which just means NYS north of the NYC metro/Mid Hudson Valley.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2016, 04:11 PM
 
215 posts, read 302,917 times
Reputation: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
It is a sub region of Upstate NY. In the Syracuse and Utica-Rome areas, they say Central NY or even the Mohawk Valley in the case of Utica-Rome. Some use the Finger Lakes, which can include parts of the Syracuse and Rochester areas. They are just subregions of Upstate NY, which just means NYS north of the NYC metro/Mid Hudson Valley.
Oh I know, but we never say "upstate" here. We always say "WNY" and consider it a little different than "upstate". Not better, not worse, just different.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2016, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Windsor Ontario/Colchester Ontario
1,500 posts, read 1,350,579 times
Reputation: 1723
I've never considered western New York to be "upstate", to me the two regions are different and not interchangeable. If it's people from NYC that think this, then it's just lazy and it makes it seem that the rest of NYS isn't as important as the city to have its own regions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2016, 04:29 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,983 posts, read 41,929,314 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by North 42 View Post
I've never considered western New York to be "upstate", to me the two regions are different and not interchangeable. If it's people from NYC that think this, then it's just lazy and it makes it seem that the rest of NYS isn't as important as the city to have its own regions.
upstate is composed of separate regions, but upstate is broad term for all of the state not in the NYC metro area (sometimes the mid-Hudson valley is grouped as "downstate").
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2016, 04:38 PM
 
215 posts, read 302,917 times
Reputation: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by North 42 View Post
I've never considered western New York to be "upstate", to me the two regions are different and not interchangeable. If it's people from NYC that think this, then it's just lazy and it makes it seem that the rest of NYS isn't as important as the city to have its own regions.
This!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top