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View Poll Results: Are Pittsburgh, Erie, and Buffalo Northeastern or Midwestern?
Northeastern 42 50.60%
Midwestern 10 12.05%
Mixed 31 37.35%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-24-2016, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North 42 View Post
By the mid 1700s, both Detroit and Windsor were settled by the French, Detroit was trading in furs and goods from Montreal and Windsor was an agricultural settlement. It was the largest French village between Montreal and New Orleans, a village, not just a fort.
And Detroit actually had more people that St. Louis in 1810, then St. Louis started to grow bigger faster.
Cincinnati was a bit bigger in 1810 at 2,540 people

Detroit: 1650 people

St. Louis: 1600 people
I don't think you're getting my point here. It's a moot point if Detroit hat more people than Saint Louis in 1810, because at that time all of the "cities" were what we'd now consider tiny hamlets. Detroit has no structures at all remaining from this era (the oldest house in Detroit ins from 1826) and Saint Louis and Cincinnati only have a handful.

What matters a lot more is when the cities became big. Cincinnati surpassed 100,000 people some time in the late 1840s. Saint Louis in the early 1850s. Detroit only hit this point by the mid 1870s however. It's 19th century core was significantly smaller than the other two cities, and to a larger extent (albeit not completely, like in the Sun Belt) swallowed up by expansion of the CBD and other redevelopment in the early to mid 20th century. It also leads to the cities having very different architectural forms not only due to differing local vernaculars, but different time periods. Cincinnati has a lot of surviving Italianate architecture, for example, because it was a big deal in the U.S. from around 1845 till the 1870s. Detroit, not so much.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:09 PM
 
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A Minnesotan who teaches at SUNY Buffalo on being Midwestern, written long before C-D existed:

Quote:
First of all, where is it? It begins, looking West, as one come out of the Appalachian foothills into the fertile flat lands of Ohio. Buffalo and Pittsburgh are the last of the great cities of the Northeast, and even they bear some characteristics of the Midwest, but Buffalo and Pittsburgh basically face east, watching New York and Philadelphia, no longer even as interested as they once were in the grain and iron that used to come in from the Midwest to fill their blast furnaces and elevators.

The Midwest: Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri (although Southern Missouri is more Southern than Midwestern) and at least the eastern portions of North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, and Kansas. It is at least arguable that the western halves of those states--Dodge City, Kansas; Scottsbluff, Nebraska; and Rapid City, South Dakota--form the eastern edge of the West, and are something called "The Great Plains," which is not exactly the same as "The Great Prairies" of the Midwest.
ON BEING MIDWESTERN

If you use Ohio or Michigan as "quintessentially" Midwest I can see why Buffalo would be included, but it wouldn't be part of it it if it's Minnesota or Iowa.
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Dothan AL
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Northeastern; Detroit and Chicago are great lakes, or northern to me. same with Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and the Dakotas.

The Midwest seems to fit more with cities in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, except Chicago, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, excluding St. Louis, and Iowa.
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:27 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Or both. Many of the first settlers were Americans coming from the east, usually New England or Upstate NY (or further east within the Midwest). Lansing, Michigan is named after Lansing, New York in Tompkins County. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...tural_politics

In the 1850s, two-thirds of immigrants to Wisconsin came from the eastern United States, the other one-third being foreign-born. The majority were German immigrants who settled in Wisconsin because of similarities between Germany's and Wisconsin's climate and environment.
Well, yeah, 1/3 foreign-born is a lot! Today, 4.7% of Wisconsin's population is foreign-born, for comarison's sake.
United States - Foreign-Born Population Percentage by State
And that's just the 1850s! See this: 19th-Century Immigration |Turning Points in Wisconsin History | Wisconsin Historical Society
Refers to post 1855: "Wisconsin's foreign-born population continued to increase, though, owing to the efforts of the Commission of Emigration, the propaganda produced by land speculators, and the letters sent back to Europe by immigrants encouraging friends and family to join them. Although not as statistically significant in the overall population as the Irish, Germans, and Norwegians, many other ethnic groups left their mark on particular areas of Wisconsin, including the Finns in Douglas County, the Danes in Racine County, and the Italians in Kenosha."

Some of my mom's family came from Germany to Wisconsin some time around then. My great-grandfather enlisted in the Civil War. He was in the 26th Wisconsin Infantry, a German-speaking outfit.
History of the 26th Wisconsin Infantry

One of my mom's grandmothers was actually born in Milwaukee to earlier immigrants. Many of these people came directly to WI.

This article describes the way my mom grew up, although she was born in Wisconsin in 1921, not 41 as the main character of this story. In Rural Wisconsin, German Reigned For Decades : NPR
She didn't speak English until she went to school. She could read German, I don't know if she could write it. She said when she enlisted in the Army in WW II (she was a nurse), the app. asked if she could speak a foreign language. She put down German. She used to joke that they sent her as far from Germany as possible-the Philippines and New Guinea!

My daughter did a project on Swedish immigration to America in middle school; we all learned a lot. Many Swedes went directly to the midwest US to take advantage of the Homestead Act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedis..._United_States
I am aware that there are a fair number of Swedes for some reason in Connecticut.

There are places all over the western US that were named for places back east. Illinois has a large number, e.g. Aurora (Aurora, NY and then Aurora, CO was named for Aurora, IL), Lyons Twp for Lyons, NY, Geneva, many others. Even in Nebraska, there are York and Lancaster Counties (Lincoln is in Lancaster Co.) and Hershey, probably named by PA settlers.

BTW, I agree with the old Minnesotan that King of Kensington quotes.
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Well, yeah, 1/3 foreign-born is a lot! Today, 4.7% of Wisconsin's population is foreign-born, for comarison's sake.
United States - Foreign-Born Population Percentage by State
And that's just the 1850s! See this: 19th-Century Immigration |Turning Points in Wisconsin History | Wisconsin Historical Society
Refers to post 1855: "Wisconsin's foreign-born population continued to increase, though, owing to the efforts of the Commission of Emigration, the propaganda produced by land speculators, and the letters sent back to Europe by immigrants encouraging friends and family to join them. Although not as statistically significant in the overall population as the Irish, Germans, and Norwegians, many other ethnic groups left their mark on particular areas of Wisconsin, including the Finns in Douglas County, the Danes in Racine County, and the Italians in Kenosha."

Some of my mom's family came from Germany to Wisconsin some time around then. My great-grandfather enlisted in the Civil War. He was in the 26th Wisconsin Infantry, a German-speaking outfit.
History of the 26th Wisconsin Infantry

One of my mom's grandmothers was actually born in Milwaukee to earlier immigrants. Many of these people came directly to WI.

This article describes the way my mom grew up, although she was born in Wisconsin in 1921, not 41 as the main character of this story. In Rural Wisconsin, German Reigned For Decades : NPR
She didn't speak English until she went to school. She could read German, I don't know if she could write it. She said when she enlisted in the Army in WW II (she was a nurse), the app. asked if she could speak a foreign language. She put down German. She used to joke that they sent her as far from Germany as possible-the Philippines and New Guinea!

My daughter did a project on Swedish immigration to America in middle school; we all learned a lot. Many Swedes went directly to the midwest US to take advantage of the Homestead Act.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedis..._United_States
I am aware that there are a fair number of Swedes for some reason in Connecticut.

There are places all over the western US that were named for places back east. Illinois has a large number, e.g. Aurora (Aurora, NY and then Aurora, CO was named for Aurora, IL), Lyons Twp for Lyons, NY, Geneva, many others. Even in Nebraska, there are York and Lancaster Counties (Lincoln is in Lancaster Co.) and Hershey, probably named by PA settlers.

BTW, I agree with the old Minnesotan that King of Kensington quotes.
There are also quite a few people of Swedish descent in Chautauqua County NY just east of Erie and in between Buffalo and Pittsburgh(about 11-12%). I believe that some places in MA have quite a few as well. So, even that group has some regional crossover. Jamestown Swedes
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Old 01-24-2016, 04:08 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Well, yeah, 1/3 foreign-born is a lot! Today, 4.7% of Wisconsin's population is foreign-born, for comarison's sake.
Yes, I wasn't arguing there wasn't a large population of German immigrants, but responding to the "no New England Yankees". Reread maybe you meant just Minnesota? Haven't checked, but I assume some of the first settlers were New Englanders. Here's one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Hoag

There was a general pattern of migration going from east to west with much less north-south movement. Accents are much wider west to east than north to south:

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com...shDialects.gif

Quote:
BTW, I agree with the old Minnesotan that King of Kensington quotes.
I'm not disagreeing from his choices or his description, but repeating what I said before it's easier for someone all the way from Minnesota to label "Buffalo" as "not Midwest" than someone from say, Ohio or eastern Michigan. But I've met someone from Wisconsin who didn't notice big differences between upstate NY and Wisconsin, so meh.

Calling Chicago a whole lot colder than Buffalo is an exaggeration; the numbers don't show that. Midwestern cold is often exaggerated.

Quote:
There are places all over the western US that were named for places back east. Illinois has a large number, e.g. Aurora (Aurora, NY and then Aurora, CO was named for Aurora, IL), Lyons Twp for Lyons, NY, Geneva, many others. Even in Nebraska, there are York and Lancaster Counties (Lincoln is in Lancaster Co.) and Hershey, probably named by PA settlers.
Yea, I remember seeing a number of places in Oregon named after places in New England; the most obvious one is Portland. And there's Ephrata, Washington named after the one in Pennsylvania.
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Old 01-24-2016, 05:26 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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^^I said they were both settled in large part by immigrants. Leep in mind that included in some of that native born population is children of immigrants.

I didn't address the Buffalo vs Chicago cold, but midwestern cold is COLD. Champaign, 130 miles south of Chicago, has a way more colder cold than Pittsburgh. Both are on the 40th parallel. Minneapolis is colder than Moscow.

The biggie in Colorado named for a more eastern city is Aurora. Many streets there are also named after cities in Illinois, e.g. Havana (yes, there's a Havana, IL!), Peoria, Alton, Argonne, Batavia, Clinton, Davies (actually probably for Jo Daviess County, IL), Evanston, Galena, Hanover, Joliet, all the way through the alphabet to Zion. There's an Ithaca St. for Ithaca, NY.
List of Street Names in Aurora, Colorado, Maps and Steet Views, Geographic.org
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

Last edited by Yac; 01-27-2016 at 06:53 AM..
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Old 01-24-2016, 05:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDocKat View Post
Northeastern; Detroit and Chicago are great lakes, or northern to me. same with Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and the Dakotas.

The Midwest seems to fit more with cities in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, except Chicago, Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, excluding St. Louis, and Iowa.
Doesn't "the North" mean the Northeast and Midwest regions together?
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Old 01-24-2016, 06:00 PM
 
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On the Yankee influence in Michigan and how it differed from the "lower" Midwest, see p. 2 in this link:

http://www.ohioswallow.com/extras/0821416618_intro.pdf

Wisconsin, along with Minnesota and North Dakota, has one of the lowest shares of British/American ancestry. The upper Midwest was initially established by Yankees, but Germans/Scandinavians quickly outnumbered Yankees the further west you move in the Upper Midwest.
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Old 01-24-2016, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Erie, PA
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I can't speak for Buffalo or Pittsburgh, but as an Erieite I feel Erie is not Midwestern or Northeastern, it is Great Lakes.
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