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View Poll Results: Are Pittsburgh, Erie, and Buffalo Northeastern or Midwestern?
Northeastern 42 50.60%
Midwestern 10 12.05%
Mixed 31 37.35%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-26-2016, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,427 posts, read 11,929,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Socially moderate. Conservative on economic issues. Ethanol also played a large role in Obama's success there.
public

I dunno I'd say Iowa was conservative on economic issues. Eastern Iowa (Davenport, Dubuque, Waterloo, Cedar Rapids, etc) is very much part of the rust belt, and has a pretty strong blue-collar union tradition. Iowa also has some of the highest-paid state employees in the country. Public education funding per pupil is on the high side as well.

This image is tiny, but the results should be clear.



Overall I'd say that Iowa is a bit less progressive than say Minnesota. But I wouldn't call it a conservative state. I think outside of the Great Plains, only Indiana and Missouri are conservative Midwestern states.
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I dunno I'd say Iowa was conservative on economic issues.
I would.

Ranking states by the liberalism/conservatism of their voters - Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science

Iowa is also strange in that it prefers its Republicans on the religious side.
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I would.

Ranking states by the liberalism/conservatism of their voters - Statistical Modeling, Causal Inference, and Social Science

Iowa is also strange in that it prefers its Republicans on the religious side.
The data involved is 16 years old. Iowa's voting patterns have changed somewhat since 2000.

I'd also argue that the economic issues are too narrowly focused - this appears to be the questions involved.

Quote:
Economic: are tax rates a problem, favor cutting taxes or strengthening Social Security, federal government should reduce the top tax rate, federal government should adopt flat tax, federal government should spend more on Social Security, favor investing Social Security in stock market, is poverty a problem, federal government should reduce income differences, federal government should spend more on aid to mothers with young children, federal government should expend effort to eliminate many business regulations.
So nothing about unions. Nothing about the minimum wage. Nothing about environmental protection (which is more of an economic issue than a social issue, IMHO). Nothing about universal health care. The questions all revolved around taxes, social security, welfare, and "regulations."

I dunno what the full wording of the questions was, but based upon the fragments, many of them were worded in such a way that does not eliminate bias. For example "are tax rates a problem?" If given a yes/no answer, I'd say yes - taxes are too low in this country.
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:52 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,008 posts, read 102,606,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
How many people in any agricultural state do you think actually live on a farm?
Not many. And that's the point. I don't have time to do a super-involved search right now, but I did find this article from five years ago: Iowa population shifts from rural to urban - USATODAY.com The urban areas are growing, the farm areas, not. People in urban areas are not involved in farming. They're involved in IT, etc, the usual stuff people do everywhere. It's the same all over the "farm belt".
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
The data involved is 16 years old. Iowa's voting patterns have changed somewhat since 2000.
Iowa hasn't changed much since 2000. It's changed since the 80s when it was solidly Republican.

What do you think has changed in Iowa since 2000? North Carolina or Virginia, yeah, but what demographic change has occurred in Iowa to significantly alter the mix of the electorate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I'd also argue that the economic issues are too narrowly focused
You can. But there is no perfect survey and ANES arguably does this better and bigger than anyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I dunno what the full wording of the questions was, but based upon the fragments, many of them were worded in such a way that does not eliminate bias. For example "are tax rates a problem?" If given a yes/no answer, I'd say yes - taxes are too low in this country.
I seriously doubt the wording on the survey is that basic. These are University of Pennsylvania pollsters who write survey questions for a living. That doesn't mean the framing of their questions is perfect but the level of simplicity you're suggesting would be expected of 10th graders, not people who've obtained advanced degrees from an Ivy League institution.

And most opinion polls don't give you a yes/no option unless it's absolutely required. They give you options like "Strongly Agree," Somewhat agree," "Strongly oppose," etc.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 01-26-2016 at 08:10 AM..
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Old 01-26-2016, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Not many. And that's the point. I don't have time to do a super-involved search right now, but I did find this article from five years ago: Iowa population shifts from rural to urban - USATODAY.com The urban areas are growing, the farm areas, not. People in urban areas are not involved in farming. They're involved in IT, etc, the usual stuff people do everywhere. It's the same all over the "farm belt".
But my argument was never that most people, or even a lot of people, in Iowa lived on farms. I said it was an agricultural state, which is a reference to industry rather than demographics.
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Old 01-26-2016, 08:35 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But my argument was never that most people, or even a lot of people, in Iowa lived on farms. I said it was an agricultural state, which is a reference to industry rather than demographics.
I'm guessing you didn't open my link: http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/636536

Here are the top 5 industries in Iowa:

1. Agriculture
2. Renewable energy Have you driven across Iowa lately? In fact, have you ever driven across Iowa, or ever even been there? You have evaded my question about your experience with the midwest several times now. It's full of windmills!
3. Advanced manufacturing "The state’s number one industry generates $25 billion a year, IADG said. It also produces jobs for Iowans across the state; more than 210,000 residents work for close to 4,000 manufacturing companies in such manufacturing industries as machinery, fabricated metals and food manufacturing."
4. Services "This workforce includes wholesale and retail trade, insurance and healthcare."
5. IT "These investments include the location of data centers from Microsoft, Google and IBM. The tech industry comprises 8.8 percent ($10.6 billion) of Iowa’s GDP and has created jobs for more than 76,000 Iowa residents. The state is also home to a growing telecommunications sector thanks largely to the Iowa Network Services statewide fiber-optic network that provides connectivity across the state, even in the most rural locales."


Gotta go. Be back soon!
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Old 01-26-2016, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
I'm guessing you didn't open my link:
I did open your link. And it shows Iowa's "top" industry as agriculture. How does that contradict my claim that it is a heavily agricultural state?

Last edited by BajanYankee; 01-26-2016 at 09:22 AM..
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Old 01-26-2016, 08:47 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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a southerner thought the Great Lakes region had the same attitude he associated with the Northeast:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lm312 View Post
I agree the nuances, of what’s considered “Northern” can be complex – but in my experience, the flavor of Midwest which seems most palatable to many Texans, are what I think is common in Indiana, Iowa or Missouri. While people in these states tend to keep their religious spirituality private, the overall social vibe comes off more mild mannered. Midwesterners in or near larger cities of the upper great lakes, however, can be just as loud, opinionated and brutally honest as many Northeasterners. I’ve visited other Southern states, but never spend enough time to pick up on social dynamics anywhere other than Texas.

Expression and interest in religious faith seems to be a big difference. My family from Indiana is very religious, and also friendly and mild mannered – but consider faith to be something private that people aren’t to be judged by. People sizing up one another based on their church is considered offensive by many people in the North, even among those who are religious. Asking someone what church they go to can sound like asking someone what their favorite sex position is. Midwesterners evaluate deeds and actions over speech, friendliness and expressions of faith. I perceive the opposite being true in parts of the south.
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Old 01-26-2016, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,099 posts, read 4,737,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I think so. You have a coastal, liberal state with a lot of European ethnic diversity and a landlocked, conservative state with not a lot of diversity that's heavily dependent on agriculture. They're not similar whatsoever. To the extent that it's more similar to Mass than Mississippi is, the point is taken. But to me it's no different from saying Barbados is more similar to the U.S. than Mexico.
That is literally my point. There is no hidden agenda. There is nothing further than that in what I said. If you agree why do you argue?

Also given the chance to look into it I think you'd find Western Massachusetts to be significantly different from coastal MA. I only say this because people often make the mistake of taking Boston to be the example of the entire state. This happens to too many northeastern states.
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