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Thank you for your response, but I don't see what it has to do with my question. However, the map you posted is exactly the problem I'm referring to - the Great Lakes Region being lumped in with the Midwest. Why? It makes a lot more sense - in many ways - for the Mid-West to begin at the Mississippi.
I think part of the problem is that, like the Great Plains, Appalachia, and the Rust Belt, it doesn't line up well with the formally established regions or with state lines, so it's hard to think of it as a subregion or as its own distinct region. The Great Lakes region spans much of the eastern half of the Midwest - I would argue until Chicago and Milwaukee (the north shore of Wisconsin and Minnesota, including Duluth, and also the UP seem more Upper Midwestern to me) - and also much of the western part of the Northeast AND all of southern Ontario.
I already answered your question....twice. But I'll answer it again - the Midwest should begin at the Mississippi River. Hell, it can even stretch a hundred miles or so east. Regions shouldn't be given such clear boundaries as state borders so that you cross from Pennsylvania into Ohio and you've suddenly gone from Northeast to Midwest. I doubt many Buffalo residents consider themselves to be living in the Northeast, but that's where the regional boundaries put them.
I mean, the Great Lakes comprise the largest inland body of fresh water on Earth, they are heavily urbanized and industrialized, rimmed by dozens of cities, among them some of the largest in North America, but no one thinks that maybe this Land o' Lakes might make up its own distinct region, that the cities and towns that grew up around the Lakes might have their own unique culture on account of our semi-maritime geography.
Seriously? There recently was a thread about whether Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Erie are northeast or midwest. The vast majority say "northeast". I have known a few Buffalonians, and I seriously doubt they'd say they lived in the midwest. They're New Yorkers, for Pete's sake!
Seriously? There recently was a thread about whether Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Erie are northeast or midwest. The vast majority say "northeast". I have known a few Buffalonians, and I seriously doubt they'd say they lived in the midwest. They're New Yorkers, for Pete's sake!
I meant that, given the choice of saying they are from the Great Lakes Region or the Northeast Region, they would no doubt choose Great Lakes. Have you been to Buffalo? It has more in common with other Great Lakes cities than it does with Boston or NYC, or Phillie.
Seriously? There recently was a thread about whether Buffalo, Pittsburgh and Erie are northeast or midwest. The vast majority say "northeast". I have known a few Buffalonians, and I seriously doubt they'd say they lived in the midwest.
The thread on the Buffalo many seemed to agree with Midwest
They seem to like to be group with the Great Lakes region or part of the Midwest rather than downstate NY.
Quote:
They're New Yorkers, for Pete's sake!
So what? State lines are political lines, they don't define culture, geography, etc. though they do have some influence. Might it make more sense to group Cleveland, Erie and Buffalo together as a Great Lakes region rather than grouping Buffalo with New York City? Most Long Islanders wouldn't feel they had much in common with Buffalo and Buffalo residents would feel the same about downstate, they just happen to share state lines.
I wonder if the regional names based off state lines are very meaningful. The Midwest is very broad.
The Great Lakes has a very strong regional influence. However it is not the ONLY influence on the culture of it's metro areas. Take where I live in the Rochester area for example. Rochester is in NY State and on Lake Ontario (and really more important in it's history of development, the Erie Canal).
The great lakes influence extends to the accent (probably one of if not THE strongest examples of the northern cities vowel shift) and the pre-war housing styles (lots of American Fouresauqres).
However Rochester, a little more so than Buffalo despite only being 60 miles to the east of it, also has some things that align it a little more with the northeast. For one, demography. There is a much higher population if Italians and Irish in the area (similar to other northeastern cities) than Polish/Slavic. There is still a higher Polish/Slavic presence here than on the coastal northeast; but not as much as one finds in the Great Lakes cities from Cleveland to Chicago.
Interestingly enough there is a pretty solid "dividing line" between where the Rochester area's built-up environment is more closely related to the northeast vs the great lakes. West of the Genesee river; it is very great lakes-esque. The land is much flatter and the suburban towns are basically old framing tracts that have been developed into single--family subdivisions on a grid from the 1960s-90s. East of the river; many of the suburbs grew up around older villages on the Canal that then grew into suburbs after the 1950s. They have small walkable downtown areas inside "the village" and then larger suburban tracts radiating out from there. The topography is also much hillier on the east side; more reminiscent of New England. The suburb of Brighton looks almost identical to many older suburban towns you find in Northern NJ with heavily tree-lined streets and many tudor style houses.
Midwest = Great Lakes + Great Plains Sub-regions, why do you feel so strongly that they should be split? You seem to think Midwest only refers to the Great Plans, it doesn't, that sub-region is a part of the Midwest just like the Great Lakes. If you separated the Great Lakes sub-region, what would you call the other half? Would it just be the "Midwest" as you seem to think of it or the Great Plains?
Great Lakes communities are essentially coastal, whereas the rest of the Midwest is landlocked. The cities and towns of the Great Lakes region grew because of shipping and maritime commerce, and this proximity to the water has shaped their identities no less than the Atlantic Ocean has shaped cities like Boston and New York. I simply think that the Great Lakes as a region or sub-region is too often overlooked, and the tendency to call cities like Detroit or Buffalo Midwestern makes no sense to me. I find that Great Lakes cities and towns have more in common with each other than with landlocked cities and towns further west. As a region, I wish its uniqueness were more widely recognized and appreciated, because it includes some of North America's most important cities, has a population of more than 30 million, and is an economic and industrial powerhouse. Besides that, where else on Earth can a region so far inland be considered coastal? These waterways were so important to the development of the US and Canada as we know them, but their unique place in North American geo-cultural history is obscured by their placement in such a monolithic region.
The "Great Lakes Region" is is clearly defined as the "Atlantic Seaboard" or the "Gulf South" or the "Pacific Northwest" or "Appalachia", and is just as distinct.
The "Great Lakes Region" is is clearly defined as the "Atlantic Seaboard" or the "Gulf South" or the "Pacific Northwest" or "Appalachia", and is just as distinct.
Is it? That's what I'm wondering, because many of the posts and threads on this board have led me to believe that the Great Lakes are not as distinct as those other regions. There is a tendency to try and categorize Great Lakes cities as being Midwestern, as if the Great Lakes isn't a distinct or large enough region to stand on its own.
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