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Geographybee wants to talk about dividing places like Florida, Texas, and PA based on culture but at the same time wants to ignore the fact that culture varies greatly across Great Lakes states. Somehow Cincinnati is the same culture as Minneapolis I suppose and the Dakotas are nothing like Minnesota. So culture matters only when it suits the argument.
Illinois - but it feels strongly southern in the southern portions of the state, including accents
Iowa - solid Midwestern
Michigan - solid Midwestern
Minnesota - solid Midwestern
Indiana - same as IL
Wisconsin - solid Midwestern
Kansas - Eastern KS only - Western KS is Great Plains to me
Missouri - Northern and far Eastern only - southern MO is pure southern, IMO
North Dakota - Eastern half only
South Dakota - same as ND
I think this is accurate, although does Kansas have a bit of Southern influence? I've not spent time there really so am curious. I've heard Ohio considered a Midwestern state, you don't agree with that assessment? I would also group Nebraska in the same category as the Dakotas.
Here's a question I have to everyone, what are some characteristics shared by all of the states that are generally considered Midwest? What do all of these have in common do you think?
I think this is accurate, although does Kansas have a bit of Southern influence? I've not spent time there really so am curious. I've heard Ohio considered a Midwestern state, you don't agree with that assessment? I would also group Nebraska in the same category as the Dakotas.
Here's a question I have to everyone, what are some characteristics shared by all of the states that are generally considered Midwest? What do all of these have in common do you think?
Demography for one. Germanic descent is very common in the Midwest. I believe all Midwest states have a majority of Germanic (including German, Dutch, and Scandinavian) descent or plurality. Farming as well dominates instead of ranching. Accents. Either Midland (General American) accents dominate or Northern accents (no Southern accent dominates in any part of the Midwest not even Missouri). Agriculture in the Lower Midwest and heavy industry (or decline) in the Upper Midwest.
This is like listening to someone argue that Maine is not part of New England because most of the population and economy is centered in Boston, Rhode Island and Connecticut.
This is like listening to someone argue that Maine is not part of New England because most of the population and economy is centered in Boston, Rhode Island and Connecticut.
Embrace Panmidwesternism or gtfo.
As has been stated on many threads before, the western portions of the Great Plains states are very much like the West and far less like the Midwest. Anywhere along and west of 100 degrees longitude line is a very good boundary that separates the West from the Midwest. So, any areas West River, (west of the Missouri River) in the Dakotas, most of west-central and western Nebraska, western Kansas, OK, TX, would all be in the West. Climate, Population Density, Economics, all lend itself to being classified as such.
As has been stated on many threads before, the western portions of the Great Plains states are very much like the West and far less like the Midwest. Anywhere along and west of 100 degrees longitude line is a very good boundary that separates the West from the Midwest. So, any areas West River, (west of the Missouri River) in the Dakotas, most of west-central and western Nebraska, western Kansas, OK, TX, would all be in the West. Climate, Population Density, Economics, all lend itself to being classified as such.
Except, if one was to define the West the same way you keep trying to define the Midwest, then the West would only be “places like Californiaâ€.
As has been stated on many threads before, the western portions of the Great Plains states are very much like the West and far less like the Midwest. Anywhere along and west of 100 degrees longitude line is a very good boundary that separates the West from the Midwest. So, any areas West River, (west of the Missouri River) in the Dakotas, most of west-central and western Nebraska, western Kansas, OK, TX, would all be in the West. Climate, Population Density, Economics, all lend itself to being classified as such.
Sooooooo in other words let's take entire states out of the Midwest because of areas (not the whole states) that are transitional to the West.
By your logic, let's take Illinois, Indiana, and definitely Missouri out because their lower thirds are more Southern than Midwestern.
Why is Cincinnati ok to stay but Rapid City isn't?
Matter of fact take all of South Dakota out according to you.
Sooooooo in other words let's take entire states out of the Midwest because of areas (not the whole states) that are transitional to the West.
By your logic, let's take Illinois, Indiana, and definitely Missouri out because their lower thirds are more Southern than Midwestern.
Why is Cincinnati ok to stay but Rapid City isn't?
Matter of fact take all of South Dakota out according to you.
No, I never said take entire states out, I specifically stated that areas along and west of 100 degrees longitude are much more like the West than the Midwest- not that the states do not fit within a general Midwest classification for the remaining portions. And yes, Rapid City is certainly a city in the West, not the Midwest. The Black Hills region and Badlands fit in very clearly with the western US. There is certainly southern overlap with many areas of the Midwest, but that is a topic for another discussion.
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geographybee
The cultures, politics, and accent of rural Cdntral PA resembles the South in a way that other rural areas do not. It makes sense as it borders parts of Maryland that are quite southern. Ohio has areas that are culturally Appalachian, and Appalachian is definitely considered a southern culture.
BS
I have family and friends in PA, south and west of Williamsport (very much getting into central PA at that point). I know the area fairly well. They are not southerners, people they know are not southerners. They only sound southern if you've lived every day of your life in Boston, to which even Michigan sounds like the deep south (hyperbole acknowledged and intended).
Appalachian culture is not monolithic, either. There is a northern version, a southern version, and even a Canadian version (if you want to deeply debate about that I have some hearty New-Brunswickers to introduce you too). The southern variety just happens to be the most famous. Even then the culture can vary between counties and towns. West Virginia alone hosts at least three distinct cultural varieties.
It appears to me that you could not answer my challenge, though.
I don't care if you want PA and Ohio to be southern, you have to prove it if you're going to boast it.
For your convenience I will copy paste my question for you to likely ignore once again:
Name me at least one thing you find in those two northern states (Oh/PA) that is exclusively southern. Something you cannot find anywhere else in the north or the west.
This could be my fault in poor wording however, allow me to reword it as a more obvious inquiry.
What exclusively southern staple (not southern-similar) can you find in Ohio and Pennsylvania that cannot be found anywhere else in the northern or western United States, excluding the southern extremities of Illinois and Missouri for the simplicity of argument?
What is your definitive and demonstrable proof that Ohio and PA have factually solid southern traits that cannot be explained away as mere similarities, nor found in other non-southern states?
For ease of definition, let us use the former Confederacy as our guide to the south in this exploration.
Please, do tell me what makes counties in Ohio and Pennsylvania definitively part of the American south.
Forgive me for being a tad aggressive, I am tiring of hearing this particular claim argued but never proven by those on your side of the issue. It's time. Make your case, please.
On that note; I can agree that (as with many border states) areas in PA and Ohio have been influenced by their southern neighbors much in the same way that those neighbors have been influenced by the north in turn. This, however, a place southern does not make.
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