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Old 05-19-2013, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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I think the census board does a good job at defining the Midwestern region. I wouldn't remove any states from it.
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
The Dakotas, Nebraska, and Kansas are no more different from the Midwest than Oklahoma and Texas are from Arkansas and Louisiana. They are still Midwestern, just as OK and TX are still Southern. KS, NE, SD, and ND are culturally, linguistically, and demographically Midwestern.
Kansas City's dialect is much more western/country sounding than that of St. Louis, it's just a fact. It sounds more like its surrounding region compared to St. Louis and its surrounding region (St. Louis has long been an urban speech island with a northern dialect). KC is just kind of western. Yes, it's a midwestern city, but it has always had less in common with the Rust Belt than with some of the younger cities to the west. I really don't think I'm alone in saying this. It did not develop the same ethnic enclaves that older cities of the northeast/midwest did. I think St. Louis and Kansas City feel almost like they're in two different states; they just don't seem to be very similar at all in culture, tradition or history.

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Old 05-19-2013, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Fountain Square, Indianapolis
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Outside of KC and St. Louis I have always considered Missouri southern. It may have to do with slavery and Mark Twain?
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by IndieIndy View Post
Outside of KC and St. Louis I have always considered Missouri southern. It may have to do with slavery and Mark Twain?
Mark Twain isn't really southern as much as classic Mississippi River Valley Americana. The slavery thing is valid, however it should be noted that Missouri never seceded from the Union (Missouri Compromise) and was one of the first slave states to embrace emancipation (thanks to the Union stronghold of St. Louis). Maryland and Delaware were also a slave states.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:37 PM
Status: "Happy New Year!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STLgasm View Post
Mark Twain isn't really southern as much as classic Mississippi River Valley Americana. The slavery thing is valid, however it should be noted that Missouri never seceded from the Union (Missouri Compromise) and was one of the first slave states to embrace emancipation (thanks to the Union stronghold of St. Louis). Maryland and Delaware were also a slave states.
Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, Kentucky, and yes, Missouri. The border states.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
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My family, which has deep roots in the Midwest that go back almost 200 years, taught me the same definition that the Census Bureau uses. So that is what I go by - Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Missouri and Kansas - nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Drewcifer View Post
My family, which has deep roots in the Midwest that go back almost 200 years, taught me the same definition that the Census Bureau uses. So that is what I go by - Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Missouri and Kansas - nothing more, nothing less.
Yes, that is the Midwest. Why are there always attempts to redefine, that which doesn't need to be redefined? It is what it is...right?
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
Which states do you consider to be the Midwest?

Wikipedia once had (since removed) a map of the Midwest where they divided the region between...

• states always included in the Midwest

• states that may be included in the Midwest

the states that may be included in the Midwest were: ND, SD, NE, KS, MN, IA, MO, WI, IL, KY, MI, IN, OH, WV

of those states, I would disagree with both Kentucky and West Virginia. Kentucky definitely leans south. West Virginia has connections with both the south and the northeast.

The states that Wikipedia's map had as always being in the Midwest were:

MN, IA, WI, IL, MI, IN, OH

These states, btw, coincide with the original footprint of the Big Ten conference before expansion to Penn State and Nebraska.

I actually like this grouping myself. I personally make a distinction between the Midwest and the Great Plains. Thus I could see eliminating ND, SD, NE, and KS from the Midwest since much of each is open plain land with little precipitation.

To me, Missouri is kind of a swing state. It is in the same north/south tier as Minnesota and Iowa, but culturally it differs from those because it was once a slave state. Yet I would see MO as much more likely a part of the region than I would Kentucky and West Virginia. KY was a slave state, but with more southern leanings than MO. And WV was carved out of a slave state but i do it more connected with the northeast.

The seven always included Midwest states all border the Great Lakes except Iowa, but culturally Iowa is very much akin to these states. I consider that orientation to the Great Lakes to be an important part of the character of the Midwest.

that's my opinion. what's yours? What states do you always include in the Midwest and which ones may (or may not) be included?
I would NOT say that West Virginia has connections to the Northeast. It is very out of place with the Northeast and no one from the Northeast would include WV as a NE state, not even if we were branching out a bit from the typical NE borders. It is a very rural, generally poverty stricken state while the majority of the Northeast is industrialized and urban, or suburban with far fewer rural areas and at least two major metro areas. Many areas of the Northeast tend to include some of the wealthiest in the country, notably the NYC metro area (parts of Long Island, the city itself, NJ and CT). New England isn't a cheap place to live, either. NJ has the nation's highest property taxes and MA is also expensive and high in taxes.

Culturally, WV is a totally different place. The fact that it is in the Appalachia region (excuse me if this is no longer the PC term) alone is vastly different. PA and extreme south/southwestern NY state are the only Northeastern states also in the Appalachian region.

Geographically, WV barely fits. If Maryland and Delaware aren't the Northeast, West Virginia definitely isn't the Northeast. I am absolutely baffled as to why you say WV has "connections" to the Northeastern states. Minus western rural PA, nope.

I would consider WV to be Southern. It's definitely on the border of the South and the Midwest, but I think it is more similar to a Southern state overall. Just watch a clip of MTV's 'Buckwild' and you'll get it (then try to tell me it's similar to the Northeast! haha)

As for the Midwestern area, I would consider Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas and Oklahoma as part of it. Personally, I don't think OK is very Southern but I don't live there so I guess I wouldn't know. It's in the middle geographically, the southern middle but still the middle. Sometimes I have an issue with declaring Texas the South, too, but that is just a personal observation, especially western Texas. KY and WV, I could see as either Southern or Midwestern. For me, though, they are both the considered part of the South.

Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 05-19-2013 at 11:39 PM..
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
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The census has this one right, but Im sure threads like this will continue to pop up over and over again.
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Old 05-20-2013, 02:57 AM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,443 posts, read 7,898,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I would NOT say that West Virginia has connections to the Northeast. It is very out of place with the Northeast and no one from the Northeast would include WV as a NE state, not even if we were branching out a bit from the typical NE borders. It is a very rural, generally poverty stricken state while the majority of the Northeast is industrialized and urban, or suburban with far fewer rural areas and at least two major metro areas. Many areas of the Northeast tend to include some of the wealthiest in the country, notably the NYC metro area (parts of Long Island, the city itself, NJ and CT). New England isn't a cheap place to live, either. NJ has the nation's highest property taxes and MA is also expensive and high in taxes.

Culturally, WV is a totally different place. The fact that it is in the Appalachia region (excuse me if this is no longer the PC term) alone is vastly different. PA and extreme south/southwestern NY state are the only Northeastern states also in the Appalachian region.

Geographically, WV barely fits. If Maryland and Delaware aren't the Northeast, West Virginia definitely isn't the Northeast. I am absolutely baffled as to why you say WV has "connections" to the Northeastern states. Minus western rural PA, nope.

I would consider WV to be Southern. It's definitely on the border of the South and the Midwest, but I think it is more similar to a Southern state overall. Just watch a clip of MTV's 'Buckwild' and you'll get it (then try to tell me it's similar to the Northeast! haha)

As for the Midwestern area, I would consider Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas and Oklahoma as part of it. Personally, I don't think OK is very Southern but I don't live there so I guess I wouldn't know. It's in the middle geographically, the southern middle but still the middle. Sometimes I have an issue with declaring Texas the South, too, but that is just a personal observation, especially western Texas. KY and WV, I could see as either Southern or Midwestern. For me, though, they are both the considered part of the South.
I think you accidentally omitted Illinois (one of the quintessential Midwest states) and inadvertently added Oklahoma.

Every map I've ever seen of the true Midwest is: Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, "Meechigan", Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana. (These are the states that are culturally Midwest too.)

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