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Old 05-20-2013, 02:31 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,412 posts, read 7,710,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
I came to the party late. I've lived in many of the Midwestern states and Central Southern states, and I lived in OK/MO 'tornado alley' a couple of times. I think the "experts" who pontificate, opine, and compile lists 'ain't never been there'. They broad brush because they don't know the difference. I think other than extreme weather, MN, MI, WI, IL, E.IA, and W.IN., share a common time zone, enjoy four very distinct seasons, generally enjoy a good growing medium, are rich in forests and large bodies of. water, have/had a similar state tax structure, and share some kind/type of common history. Based on hours of travel, and general travel experience, I feel that TN, KY, MO, AR, OK are Central Southern sates whereas KS, NE, and the Dakotas are Central Northern. The balance of the western U.S. identify as Southwestern, Northwestern and California.

Physical size aside, I don't think Tulsa, St. Louis, Des Moine, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, KC, Indy, Chicago or Cleveland share much, feel the same or have the same vibe - even though they may offer the same stores, the same restaurants, and the same or very similar amenities.
Spot on, Linicx!

Edit: Oh yeh, sans MO (with the exception of the southern quarter which is pretty Southern).

Last edited by Bass&Catfish2008; 05-20-2013 at 04:00 PM..
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:27 PM
 
12,686 posts, read 10,510,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
Gotcha.

I think in your other post you mentioned that you have not lived (or visited?) Oklahoma. That might help with your assessment of proper geographic/cultural designation of Oklahoma and Texas, which I think you questioned Tejas' historical/culturally accepted delineation in the West South Central along with Oklahoma. You're entitled to your opinion, however different it may be from the majority's utilization of historical and cultural demarcations. (I tend to be a bit of a non-conformist myself.)

There are a few topographical similarities (and tornadoes!) that Oklahoma shares with the Midwest, say Kansas/Missouri for example, but that is where the commonalities cease. Culturally, Oklahoma is essentially a westernized version of Arkansas; and further, there are parts of east Texas that are as Deep South as just about anywhere save maybe Mississippi/Bammer.

To each his (or her) own though. Good dialogue.
Culturally, I obviously cannot speak for OK or TX but geographically, IMO Oklahoma seems more Midwestern than Southern and parts of Texas are too far west to be the South. But obviously states have their delineations and the U.S. Census, which is probably the most reliable source, identifies them as a certain region so I'll go with that and I have no problem with it. But geographically I think OK is more towards the Midwest, southern Midwest but Midwest. Just my opinion. But from what I have heard it is a Sourthern state which is fine by me since this thread merely asks for personal opinions

I hope you're safe in the Oklahoma City area, I heard a major tornado just touched down in/around Moore, OK! Looks devastating. I've seen what hurricanes (or superstorms…) can do very recently but I have never seen firsthand what tornadoes can do nor do I want to.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,229,371 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by linicx View Post
I came to the party late. I've lived in many of the Midwestern states and Central Southern states, and I lived in OK/MO 'tornado alley' a couple of times. I think the "experts" who pontificate, opine, and compile lists 'ain't never been there'. They broad brush because they don't know the difference. I think other than extreme weather, MN, MI, WI, IL, E.IA, and W.IN., share a common time zone, enjoy four very distinct seasons, generally enjoy a good growing medium, are rich in forests and large bodies of. water, have/had a similar state tax structure, and share some kind/type of common history. Based on hours of travel, and general travel experience, I feel that TN, KY, MO, AR, OK are Central Southern sates whereas KS, NE, and the Dakotas are Central Northern. The balance of the western U.S. identify as Southwestern, Northwestern and California.

Physical size aside, I don't think Tulsa, St. Louis, Des Moine, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, KC, Indy, Chicago or Cleveland share much, feel the same or have the same vibe - even though they may offer the same stores, the same restaurants, and the same or very similar amenities.
LOL....Tulsa in the same league as the other cities you mention. Physical size aside, all the cities you mention are similar demographically and culturally. You truly have no clue at all what is Southern or Midwestern. I don't care what kind of travel experience you claim to have...Missouri is NOT a Central Southern state...overall, the state is not at all like Kentucky, Arkansas, Tennessee, or Oklahoma. To say that Missouri is Southern shows you have not been to most of the state. St. Louis and Kansas City are solidly Midwestern cities. And I would put Missouri at Central Northern from a modern standpoint before Central Southern. Missouri is for the most part demographically (apart from religion), linguistically, and culturally more Midwestern than it is Southern.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,229,371 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Maryland is not the northeast. Have you not heard what John Kennedy said about DC? Paraphrasing, "a city of northern charm and southern efficiency". Part of Maryland was taken to make DC. My sister-in-law, not yet 60, grew up in western Maryland and remembers segregated lunch counters. Maryland is neither north nor south.

Back to ignore you go!
Washington D.C. is not Maryland...and that statement about Maryland was 50 years ago. Also, John Kennedy's word alone makes it what it is? Back to ignorance you go pal! So what if Maryland was segregated...that automatically makes it the south? It has Southern influences, which are very different from actually being Southern. And to argue from a modern standpoint that it's even 50% southern is ridiculous. You're nuts. And you have no way of counteracting Maryland culturally and linguistically being more similar to Pennsylvania than to Virginia. Baltimore and D.C. are equally as much like Richmond as Philadelphia...LOL, you would literally have to be mentally handicapped to arrive at such a conclusion. And we disagree on everything, so you'll make your ignorant statements regardless of what I say. So I'm no longer reviewing your's. I know you'll review mine anyway and try to provoke me, so go ahead and do your worst.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,229,371 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Gonna have to vehemently disagree here. Certainly the parts of Oklahoma that are close to Arkansas are like Arkansas but most of Oklahoma is like the state that it is closest to. And for the most part that state would be Texas. However, the NW part of the state is very much like Kansas (Alva, Buffalo, Medford, Blackwell).

And for that matter, other than their eastern fringes the great plains states have very little in common with the midwest. Dodge City, KS, Scottsbluff Neb, Rapid City, SD, Williston, ND have virtually nothing in common with the midwest.

However, we will have to have Mr. Stlousian throw in his "cultural, demographic and linguistic" synopsis of that observation.
Like you're accurate to begin with, or have a better way to prove something belongs in a certain region..you're under the assumption that Oklahoma and Texas are Midwestern, so I'd stop talking if I were you. And that cultural, demographic, etc. observation is pretty hard to refute. If that isn't good enough, I'll have to throw social customs in there as well. However, I agree that Dodge city, KS is really more western than Midwestern. Before you make fun of me, make sure you aren't completely full of it first.
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Old 05-20-2013, 03:58 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,412 posts, read 7,710,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
Culturally, I obviously cannot speak for OK or TX but geographically, IMO Oklahoma seems more Midwestern than Southern and parts of Texas are too far west to be the South. But obviously states have their delineations and the U.S. Census, which is probably the most reliable source, identifies them as a certain region so I'll go with that and I have no problem with it. But geographically I think OK is more towards the Midwest, southern Midwest but Midwest. Just my opinion. But from what I have heard it is a Sourthern state which is fine by me since this thread merely asks for personal opinions

I hope you're safe in the Oklahoma City area, I heard a major tornado just touched down in/around Moore, OK! Looks devastating. I've seen what hurricanes (or superstorms…) can do very recently but I have never seen firsthand what tornadoes can do nor do I want to.
Thank you! Please send up some prayers for the folks hit hard by the tornadoes, especially children.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:03 PM
 
12,686 posts, read 10,510,132 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
Thank you! Please send up some prayers for the folks hit hard by the tornadoes, especially children.
Of course!
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Old 05-20-2013, 05:30 PM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,596,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Washington D.C. is not Maryland...and that statement about Maryland was 50 years ago. Also, John Kennedy's word alone makes it what it is? Back to ignorance you go pal! So what if Maryland was segregated...that automatically makes it the south? It has Southern influences, which are very different from actually being Southern. And to argue from a modern standpoint that it's even 50% southern is ridiculous. You're nuts. And you have no way of counteracting Maryland culturally and linguistically being more similar to Pennsylvania than to Virginia. Baltimore and D.C. are equally as much like Richmond as Philadelphia...LOL, you would literally have to be mentally handicapped to arrive at such a conclusion. And we disagree on everything, so you'll make your ignorant statements regardless of what I say. So I'm no longer reviewing your's. I know you'll review mine anyway and try to provoke me, so go ahead and do your worst.
Your reaching there buddy. Baltimore and DC have far more in common with Richmond than Philadelphia has with Richmond. Also DC and Baltimore are not northeastern (I definitely wouldn't say they are southern culturally either). They are technically southern Mid-Atlantic while Philadelphia and NYC are northeastern mid-Atlantic. The mid-Atlantic overlaps two regions the northeast and the south. Sticking to the subject, the census depicts the Midwest accurately.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,229,371 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
Your reaching there buddy. Baltimore and DC have far more in common with Richmond than Philadelphia has with Richmond. Also DC and Baltimore are not northeastern (I definitely wouldn't say they are southern culturally either). They are technically southern Mid-Atlantic while Philadelphia and NYC are northeastern mid-Atlantic. The mid-Atlantic overlaps two regions the northeast and the south. Sticking to the subject, the census depicts the Midwest accurately.
First off, I'm not your buddy. Second off, so you're telling me Baltimore and DC have more in common with Richmond than Philadelphia. LOL. Where's the linguistical, cultural, or demographic data backing it up (besides African American population). Southern Mid-Atlantic? That's ridiculous. All because of an imaginary Mason-Dixon line people like to claim is still there. I'm in a forum full of know-nothings. People who are determined to stick to their guns that Maryland, Baltimore, and DC are all Southern or at least 50% southern. I've been to Baltimore, DC, PHiladelphia, and Richmond. Richmond is COMPLETELY different culturally and linguistically....I agree that Baltimore and DC have more in common with Richmond than Philadelphia does, but I strongly disagree that it's an even 50-50 split between Richmond and Philadelphia. The Census does not accurately depict the South...to suggest that Maryland has more in common with Virginia from a modern standpoint is the equivalent of suggesting Ohio has more in common with Kentucky than with Michigan.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
2,709 posts, read 4,229,371 times
Reputation: 998
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlouisan View Post
Like you're accurate to begin with, or have a better way to prove something belongs in a certain region..you're under the assumption that Oklahoma and Texas are Midwestern, so I'd stop talking if I were you. And that cultural, demographic, etc. observation is pretty hard to refute. If that isn't good enough, I'll have to throw social customs in there as well. However, I agree that Dodge city, KS is really more western than Midwestern. Before you make fun of me, make sure you aren't completely full of it first.
Correction, the Oklahoma-Texas part I may have gotten you confused with someone else, but nonetheless, you have no business criticizing me. Culture, demographics, and linguistics...if they are not an indicator of a region, I have no idea what is.
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