U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-30-2013, 09:49 AM
 
2,426 posts, read 3,622,086 times
Reputation: 1453

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayp1188 View Post
Chicago is in the Midwest, and Philly is a city that has only recently become a "cool" place to live. Chicago and Philly are also two cities that aren't the best in any field. They're both generally among the best cities to be in for most fields, whereas NYC is the absolute best for finance/banking/publishing/etc., DC for government, Bay Area for high-tech, Boston for biotech/medicine/academia, and LA for entertainment. Being the top location for major industries tends to drive demand, which drives housing costs. SD is sort of an anomaly, but the demand is driven due to it being the most desirable place for those seeking the perfect climate, gorgeous scenery, and an extremely laid back way of life. And then there's Honolulu, extremely expensive because it's so isolated and is pretty much paradise.

Still, I wouldn't call either city affordable. Yea, they're both cheaper than NYC, Honolulu, Bay Area, Boston, DC, LA, and SD...but that is pretty much it. Rentals in both cities are going up rather quickly too, especially in the nice areas.
Right. People make it seem like Chicago and Philly are cheap like Charlotte, Houston, San Antonio, etc. They are not. They aren't the most expensive cities but they are no where cheap either. Much cheaper than NYC and SF? Yeah! But then again most cities in the country are as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-30-2013, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,144,623 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Born View Post
None of this is true, though. Only a tiny proportion of the NYC Metropolitan area sits on an island.

How does the NYC area have less developable land availability than the Chicago or Philly metropolitan areas? The vast majority of metropolitan NYC lies in NJ, mainland NY State and CT. If you wanted to, you could sprawl all the way north to Boston, and NYC already sprawls south to Philly.

So why is a NYC suburb in NJ much more expensive than a Philly suburb in NJ? It certainly isn't available land.
It's a supply and demand reason (this is why both supply-side and demand-side economics are flawed). There are tons of jobs in NYC, so there is a high demand for places to live. On top of that, the places that are in demand are places that are safe and have a short commute. Those places are insanely expensive. It's, of course, more complicated than that, but that's a good starting point.

As for NYC vs NJ suburbs in the Philadelphia area, you have to factor in the desirability of differing neighborhoods. Philadelphia's most desirable suburbs are on the west side (minus a couple like Moorestown). Individual neighborhoods can have their own supply-demand curves. Salaries are also a factor since high-demand areas can be bid up higher in NYC than in Philadelphia.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-30-2013, 12:23 PM
 
465 posts, read 737,609 times
Reputation: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
It's a supply and demand reason (this is why both supply-side and demand-side economics are flawed). There are tons of jobs in NYC, so there is a high demand for places to live. On top of that, the places that are in demand are places that are safe and have a short commute. Those places are insanely expensive. It's, of course, more complicated than that, but that's a good starting point.
Yes, exactly. There are cities with more intense demand, which feeds higher housing prices. It has little to do with geographic constraints and the like.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-30-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,334 posts, read 10,313,168 times
Reputation: 5400
I think jobs and salaries have to be factored into it as well. There are not a lot of high paying premium jobs in the Philly area.

You do not meet people in other cities clamoring to move to Philly the way you do with Boston, DC or NYC. Philly is very blue collar compared to Boston, etc. Just notice on tv how many shows are set in DC, NYC, or Boston. That kind of marketing is priceless. Philly barely gets a nod in this regard. It is off the radar and just viewed as having a lot of crime and not much to see or do.

If you follow travel blogs, you will note that few Europeans spend more than a day here. And their blogs reveal they feel it is a nice city, but without really much to see or do outside a few tourist spots (Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, Rocky statue).

I think the nation as a whole views Chicago as much more interesting and exciting than Philly, so I'm not sure what is going on there.

When you live here you keep hearing constantly that we are on the cusp of greatness, and nothing ever changes. The city here changes at a snails pace compared to just about every other major city.

I really wonder if Boston would have let another state completely cut off their city from an interstate the way PA let NJ bully Philadelphia with I-95. They should have boycotted NJ or better yet closed every bridge in and out of NJ till they met their obligation to put I-95 thru Princeton.

You get on I-95 in Baltimore and the points north noted on the interstate signs all state "NYC", not Philadelphia. A city of 1.5M people is totally out of the loop. I can't emphasize enough how being cut off from one of the largest interstates in the country has hurt Philadelphia. Strange.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-30-2013, 12:54 PM
 
2,426 posts, read 3,622,086 times
Reputation: 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
I think jobs and salaries have to be factored into it as well. There are not a lot of high paying premium jobs in the Philly area.

You do not meet people in other cities clamoring to move to Philly the way you do with Boston, DC or NYC. Philly is very blue collar compared to Boston, etc. Just notice on tv how many shows are set in DC, NYC, or Boston. That kind of marketing is priceless. Philly barely gets a nod in this regard. It is off the radar and just viewed as having a lot of crime and not much to see or do.

If you follow travel blogs, you will note that few Europeans spend more than a day here. And their blogs reveal they feel it is a nice city, but without really much to see or do outside a few tourist spots (Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, Rocky statue).

I think the nation as a whole views Chicago as much more interesting and exciting than Philly, so I'm not sure what is going on there.

When you live here you keep hearing constantly that we are on the cusp of greatness, and nothing ever changes. The city here changes at a snails pace compared to just about every other major city.

I really wonder if Boston would have let another state completely cut off their city from an interstate the way PA let NJ bully Philadelphia with I-95. They should have boycotted NJ or better yet closed every bridge in and out of NJ till they met their obligation to put I-95 thru Princeton.

You get on I-95 in Baltimore and the points north noted on the interstate signs all state "NYC", not Philadelphia. A city of 1.5M people is totally out of the loop. I can't emphasize enough how being cut off from one of the largest interstates in the country has hurt Philadelphia. Strange.
I can answer for Chicago. Chicago it really boils down to space. The northside which is built up like cities like San Francisco, Boston, D.C., etc, is middle to very expensive. It's because there is not much room to grow on the northside and high in demand. The southside is a complete different story. Parts of it look like Detroit and there is so much available land down there. Chicago essentially is like two different cities. It's kind of like if if you combine San Francisco and Oakland into one city. One side is much more expensive and in demand than the other half. However, when you combine them together, the average price for house comes somewhere in the middle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-30-2013, 06:45 PM
 
178 posts, read 237,745 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoist123 View Post
I can answer for Chicago. Chicago it really boils down to space. The northside which is built up like cities like San Francisco, Boston, D.C., etc, is middle to very expensive.
It has nothing to do with space. There is no difference in the potentially developable land area in say, Chicagoland compared to, say, Boston, DC, or NYC.

And you have to understand that this is metro data. Lincoln Park, Lakeview and Gold Coast are like 2% of the Chicagoland sales market. They don't really factor into the relative differences.

And even those nice Chicago areas are, on a relative basis, not as in demand as in other cities. It's nothing like San Francisco. My friend lives at 3130 Lake Shore Drive, which is a luxury highrise in one of the best areas of the city proper, and he pays $1,500 for a big one bedroom. That's cheap for a nice area. And his building always has lots of availabilities.

Chicago is cheaper because there's less demand for Chicago real estate. The "why" can be debated (I would say it's because the Chicagoland job market is weak and Midwest is not very in-demand, for a variety of reasons), but isn't really relevant to the overall discussion. A city's relative costs are simply relative demand.

Of course, overall, Chicago isn't really "cheap". It's only cheap compared to the coastal cities. It's average or above-average priced for interior cities. So it all depends on your basis of comparison.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-30-2013, 11:20 PM
 
5,836 posts, read 10,787,505 times
Reputation: 4428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoist123 View Post
I can answer for Chicago. Chicago it really boils down to space. The northside which is built up like cities like San Francisco, Boston, D.C., etc, is middle to very expensive. It's because there is not much room to grow on the northside and high in demand. The southside is a complete different story. Parts of it look like Detroit and there is so much available land down there. Chicago essentially is like two different cities. It's kind of like if if you combine San Francisco and Oakland into one city. One side is much more expensive and in demand than the other half. However, when you combine them together, the average price for house comes somewhere in the middle.
agreed.

I have mentioned the combine San Francisco and Oakland, and you have a better of idea of Chicagos seemingly bipolar situation.

Although I would use your other comparable cities you mentioned in your post:

North Side Chicago = Boston
South Side Chicago = Detroit.
Downtown Chicago = small slice of Manhattan
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2013, 09:16 AM
 
725 posts, read 1,003,100 times
Reputation: 273
Downtown Chicago does not feel anything like manhattan. I would say Chicago feels like Chicago, because its Midwestern. Philly, and Boston are more Manhatan. Even tho those three developed at the same time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2013, 10:03 AM
 
2,426 posts, read 3,622,086 times
Reputation: 1453
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toure View Post
Downtown Chicago does not feel anything like manhattan. I would say Chicago feels like Chicago, because its Midwestern. Philly, and Boston are more Manhatan. Even tho those three developed at the same time.
I think he mean more Manhattan in the types of people that live there ($$$).

Meaning downtown is like manhattan because it is expensive and really only the wealthy live there.
The northside is like Boston because it is fully developed and middle class to the wealthy class there.
The southside like Detroit because middle to the lower class live there.

I don't think the poster was saying that they are similar in how they feel, rather they are similar in regards to socioeconomics and how developed the areas are compared to a city.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,459 posts, read 7,525,289 times
Reputation: 4347
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
It's a supply and demand reason (this is why both supply-side and demand-side economics are flawed). There are tons of jobs in NYC, so there is a high demand for places to live. On top of that, the places that are in demand are places that are safe and have a short commute. Those places are insanely expensive. It's, of course, more complicated than that, but that's a good starting point.

As for NYC vs NJ suburbs in the Philadelphia area, you have to factor in the desirability of differing neighborhoods. Philadelphia's most desirable suburbs are on the west side (minus a couple like Moorestown). Individual neighborhoods can have their own supply-demand curves. Salaries are also a factor since high-demand areas can be bid up higher in NYC than in Philadelphia.
Exactly. I don't think this point can be emphasized enough. Insofar as there is a disproportionately large amount of wealthy people in places like New York or the Bay Area, real estate prices will go as high as people are willing to pay.

That's why living in a city with tons of super wealthy people isn't necessarily a good thing -- it makes many of the desirable areas to live less attainable by median/middle-class earners.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top