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Old 03-27-2015, 07:25 PM
 
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Black people from Detroit can have it. I have noticed they sound less Southern and have the shift more than their Chicago counterparts.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
It's mostly a white thing, although not entirely. From what I remember reading, younger black speakers are starting to adopt some of the beginning stages of the shift - often times using the flat a sound in apple but not making "cot" sound like "cat." As for Hispanics and Asians, I would say that outside of a few areas in the region such as Chicago, they're fairly well dispersed and haven't really been able to form their own communities, so some of them have the Northern Cities Shift (or at least elements of it,) especially if their families have been in the Great Lakes area for a while. Often times with Hispanics, it seems to be mixed in with typical Chicano accents.

On the other hand, I know this is anecdotal evidence, and possibly against what the research is saying, but it seems like the Northern Cities Vowel Shift is decreasing amongst people under 40 or so. It's still there, but a bit less grating and more mainstream American.
Actually NCVS is a recent phenomenon. Older people in the region are actually less likely to have it and more likely to sound General American. The Inland North USED to be General American in dialect but has since moved away to NCVS.
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Old 01-01-2018, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Reno, NV
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I've noticed recently that a lot of working-class Latinos in Chicagoland have the shift - people on the train, paramedics, cops - often as thick or thicker than their white counterparts in similar walks of life. If they're native-born, that is.
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Old 01-01-2018, 04:15 PM
 
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The NCVS is mostly a result of Irish English coming in contact with already established American ways of speaking in the North (many by way of New England which were by way of East Anglia). When these Irish came to Chicago their English largely affected the way the whole city spoke due to their prominence and power. Simply put the strongest NCVS speakers will be Irish or those who grew up around many Irish speakers. The less Irish influence (including culture) one has the less NCVS they sound. Look at Morgan Park vs Mt Greenwood speakers. Mt Greenwood speakers have more NCVS due to greater Irish influence but not Morgan Park speakers whom have little to no Hiberno English carryover as 1)most are Black and 2)their roots are from the Deep South and not Irish.

It really depends how Irish influenced one is. Many Latinos on the South Side have it due to this. Same can be said of other places. The Blacks and the Irish have largely hated each other so their speech is the most divergent. So it isn't so much a White thing as it is Irish. It isn't as strong in Jews of Hyde Park for example. They sound less NCVS and just more Northern but the NCVS isn't super pronounced. The thing is that for a long time the Irish were the most influential group so being White in Chicago became associated with Irish identity and vice versa.
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Chicago
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Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars View Post
I've noticed recently that a lot of working-class Latinos in Chicagoland have the shift - people on the train, paramedics, cops - often as thick or thicker than their white counterparts in similar walks of life. If they're native-born, that is.
I think that's just the Chicano part
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Alacran View Post
I think that's just the Chicano part
Definitely not the first or second gen Mexican parts. Those are quite Spanish accented still. Some second gens IMO can have a Northern accents though
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:02 PM
 
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Heck my own accent is unique. I am a somewhat White guy (Mediterranean and Germanic roots) but while I have I think NCVS I also don't pronounce many things Chicago like. Lots of here say "sahsaj" for sausage and that sounds off to me. Same with pop. I say soda and that is only like a far North thing like Wisconsin. Also I know some pronunciations here make no sense to me so I guess I don't have a textbook accent. Probably has to do with the fact I grew up kinda uppity haha.

I wouldn't call my accent as General American by any means but I definitely would still say my accent is probably more generically Northern instead of particularly Chicago. I love my city and represent it everywhere but honestly I don't really feel the need to have a contrived textbook accent even if I know how to do one. IMO the textbook accent doesn't exist and is only a lousy stereotype. NCVS is only a facet of Chicago's accent. There is so much about our accent that makes us unique that isn't studied a ton. My own accent doesn't get me noticed here a I speak very typical but just my own way that people don't pay attention to. Some of my pronunciations are different and that's that. I also don't particularly care for the lingo here either. Although thot was a good contribution to global vernacular.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Reno, NV
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Heck my own accent is unique. I am a somewhat White guy (Mediterranean and Germanic roots) but while I have I think NCVS I also don't pronounce many things Chicago like. Lots of here say "sahsaj" for sausage and that sounds off to me. Same with pop. I say soda and that is only like a far North thing like Wisconsin. Also I know some pronunciations here make no sense to me so I guess I don't have a textbook accent. Probably has to do with the fact I grew up kinda uppity haha.
Although my dialect is mostly Inland North and that's usually how I'm identified by other people (as being from Chicago/Wisconsin/the Upper Midwest), my mom is from Queens, and I've realized as I've gotten older that that's influenced certain aspects of my idiolect - both pronunciation (my "aw" vowel can sound New Yawkah at times) and vocabulary (I say "stoop" for a small, squat front porch, and use a smattering of Yiddish terms). I am trying to say pop more instead of soda lately, though. Heh.

Quote:
NCVS is only a facet of Chicago's accent. There is so much about our accent that makes us unique that isn't studied a ton. My own accent doesn't get me noticed here a I speak very typical but just my own way that people don't pay attention to. Some of my pronunciations are different and that's that. I also don't particularly care for the lingo here either. Although thot was a good contribution to global vernacular.
Yeah, I was listening yesterday to the Manitowoc Minute guy, and while his accent was unmistakably a type of Inland North, there were differences from the type of Inland North English spoken here that I couldn't quite put my finger on - he's from eastern Wisconsin, per the name of his show. I guess the rhythm sounded different.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars View Post
Although my dialect is mostly Inland North and that's usually how I'm identified by other people (as being from Chicago/Wisconsin/the Upper Midwest), my mom is from Queens, and I've realized as I've gotten older that that's influenced certain aspects of my idiolect - both pronunciation (my "aw" vowel can sound New Yawkah at times) and vocabulary (I say "stoop" for a small, squat front porch, and use a smattering of Yiddish terms). I am trying to say pop more instead of soda lately, though. Heh.


Yeah, I was listening yesterday to the Manitowoc Minute guy, and while his accent was unmistakably a type of Inland North, there were differences from the type of Inland North English spoken here that I couldn't quite put my finger on - he's from eastern Wisconsin, per the name of his show. I guess the rhythm sounded different.
Do people ever think you talk like a New Yorker? I also say stoop btw and have no NYC roots. I always just knew that word and so did a lot of people I knew. I wasn't aware it was a NY thing only.

Out of Chicago people think I am either from tie Upper Midwest, the NYC area, New England, or Canada. So the get it wrong no matter what. I guess my accent has aspects of each of those places in their perception. I think my accent is perfectly Chicago but it seems that once you leave the Great Lakes people don't have an idea as to what that is supposed to sound like.

To your other point, Wisconsinites merge caught with cot. There are also even more vowel differences between us and them. They lack the AW vowel entirely. So sausage = sahsaj at least makes sense in terms of their vowels. Chicagoans don't merge the two so it makes less sense. Like if people here say saw with the AW vowel there is no reason to say it with the AH vowel. Wisconsin also merges the vowels in plague/vague with short A before g. So bag has the same sound as the vowel in plague but plague has the same vowel as a word like beg. So bag and plague rhyme with beg and peg. In that way Wisconsin doesn't have full NCVS since a full NCVS person wouldn't even use the "e" vowel there anyway. This makes things more confusing for those who think Northerners all sound alike.

I guess since NCVS is really just affecting short vowels (and full NCVS is present only in the Great Lakes) lots of other factors give us different accents. That's just 5 short vowels affected while there are about 10 or so other vowel sounds that can vary between speakers.
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Old 01-02-2018, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Does a normal Minnesota accent count as NCVS? Cuz I hear non-white Hispanics and Native Americans with that accent all the time. I even heard a few black people who say the "Minnesota O."

I have a black female friend from Cleveland who pronounces "daughter" like a New Yorker. "Dwautta."
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