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Old 01-02-2018, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars View Post
Although my dialect is mostly Inland North and that's usually how I'm identified by other people (as being from Chicago/Wisconsin/the Upper Midwest), my mom is from Queens, and I've realized as I've gotten older that that's influenced certain aspects of my idiolect - both pronunciation (my "aw" vowel can sound New Yawkah at times) and vocabulary (I say "stoop" for a small, squat front porch, and use a smattering of Yiddish terms). I am trying to say pop more instead of soda lately, though. Heh.


Yeah, I was listening yesterday to the Manitowoc Minute guy, and while his accent was unmistakably a type of Inland North, there were differences from the type of Inland North English spoken here that I couldn't quite put my finger on - he's from eastern Wisconsin, per the name of his show. I guess the rhythm sounded different.
Wait, "Stoop" is a New York thing? I've always said stoop lol. I know New York is famous for its stoops especially on brownstones but I didn't know that was a word FROM New York. I've never been to New York, not even close to it but I'm a quarter Dutch and a quarter Italian so I guess deep down that technically makes me half New Yorker!

I use Yiddish phrases sometimes too, and I'm Catholic! I used to say "oy vey," its just a fun phrase.
Since moving to Minnesota , I catch myself saying "uff da" though. Had a customer the other day kept throwing that word left and right, hah!
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Yakima WA
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David Clarke who was the long time sherrif of Milwaukee County until recently is black and has the NCVS to a large degree.
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:40 AM
 
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Lol...I've lived in Milwaukee and Chicago, and I've never heard anyone say get the pronunciation of "bus, boss, block and black" wrong. You can't believe everything you read.
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
David Clarke who was the long time sherrif of Milwaukee County until recently is black and has the NCVS to a large degree.
Googled him. Yes he does. Quite noticeable actually. Can't say he sounds like a Chicagoan though. Again shows that NCVS =/= a specific accent but just 5 vowel pronunciations.
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Does a normal Minnesota accent count as NCVS? Cuz I hear non-white Hispanics and Native Americans with that accent all the time. I even heard a few black people who say the "Minnesota O."

I have a black female friend from Cleveland who pronounces "daughter" like a New Yorker. "Dwautta."
Minnesota is outside of being full NCVS but it is slight.

Minnesota vowels affected by the merge:
A: becomes short E. Unlike the Great Lakes where short A becomes IA or EA
O: becomes broad A "". Same as Great Lakes and a lot of the Northern accent territory.

That's pretty much it, though. Minnesota is barely NCVS at all. People think it is NCVS because it is a Northern as opposed to Midland accent. So what it does have are other Northern qualities such as an ultra backed and conservative long O pronunciation and a very rounded long U. This exists whether you're in Maine or North Dakota.

I wonder if OP means NCVS to be a Northern accent or specifically 5 short vowels used exclusively in the Great Lakes states

Edit: it doesn't strike me as unusual to hear Hispanic or Blacks use a Northern O. Especially a Minnesota O which is identical to a Spanish O and identical to the O sound used by many Brit influenced African English dialects (and lots of Africans seem to love Minnesota). Same thing for Caribbean Blacks and some of the Low Country (South Carolina and the like). The Minnesota O is hardly limited to Minnesota. It just isn't super common in the US but many native English speakers throughout the world use that vowel quite often.

Last edited by EddieOlSkool; 01-02-2018 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:15 PM
 
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I'm curious as to why so many love to discuss this accent..there are numerous threads where it's discussed. This particular thread is about if predominantly white people speak with this accent, not the accent itself. People just can't seem to help themselves...they go on, and on, and on.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Reno, NV
1,546 posts, read 710,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enean View Post
I'm curious as to why so many love to discuss this accent..there are numerous threads where it's discussed. This particular thread is about if predominantly white people speak with this accent, not the accent itself. People just can't seem to help themselves...they go on, and on, and on.
Might be because the Midwest has traditionally been the most vanilla, neutral, bland region of the US, so people like the fact that it has a defining vowel shift, especially since it's not an ancient, inherited historical feature but is less than a century old. It's the Midwest finally becoming interesting.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars View Post
Might be because the Midwest has traditionally been the most vanilla, neutral, bland region of the US, so people like the fact that it has a defining vowel shift, especially since it's not an ancient, inherited historical feature but is less than a century old. It's the Midwest finally becoming interesting.
Nice response. I think it's cool to have a defining regional character even if it is something as simple as linguistics. When I go out of town people may not be able to tell I am from Chicago but at least they can tell I sound Northern.

However it is not really the entire Midwest though. Only the great Lakes. Everyone else still sounds bland for the most part south of 80 save for St. Louis and Cincinnati but even then theirs is weak.

Also the NCVS isn't limited to the Midwest and even extends into Rhode Island. It covers most of New York, the Northern tier of Pennsylvania near New York (especially Scranton and down to A-town), and Connecticut. It really is a defining Northern characteristic if anything. Characteristically and uniquely Midwest accents still exist south of 80.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Yakima WA
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The article on Wiki says the NCVS is relatively new. It started in the 1960s. Before then people from thia region spoke in a standard American accent.Can that be true? Hard to believe an accent could be so new. Come to think of it my grandparents were born and raised in Milwaukee in the early 1900s and they did not have the NCVS.
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Reno, NV
1,546 posts, read 710,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
The article on Wiki says the NCVS is relatively new. It started in the 1960s. Before then people from thia region spoke in a standard American accent.Can that be true? Hard to believe an accent could be so new. Come to think of it my grandparents were born and raised in Milwaukee in the early 1900s and they did not have the NCVS.
Well, why can't it be new? The US is more diverse than ever, and no one really consumes enough mass media for it to totally homogenize our accents, even if it influences certain aspects.

The California Shift (which makes "head" sound like "had", or "pick" like "peck", and so on) is a lot newer; it's only been documented since around the '80s. The Miami and New Mexico accents (which both sound kind of Chicano-y, on account of large Latino populations, but also sound different from each other) are also pretty recent - younger people of all races have them, but older people usually don't. And as of very recently, as in the last few years, Los Angeles (or at least East LA) has started to become non-rhotic, like in a posh British accent (so "car" sounds like "cah"). Other parts of the US are going through more subdued sound changes, like in the Utah/Nevada area, where the long and short U sounds are becoming the same before L, so "pull" and "pool" sound the same. Dialectology is very exciting.
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