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Old 01-03-2018, 07:24 PM
 
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I thought that Valley Girl upspeak was the new phenomenon and that California Vowel Shift has already been well established?

Ps it seems older White people from the Southwest sound Chicano to me and their children more California oriented.
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cookiepie788 View Post
No Minnesota is heavily or perhaps quintessentially NCVS. If you live there of course you can not notice it course.
No. Look at maps of NCVS. It is almost out of the coverage.

Map shows Minnesota covered by two shifts of vowels only compared to Chicago covered by the full shift: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Shift.svg.png

Minnesota has its own unique accent that is not even categorized within the Inland North but rather Upper Midwest/North Central. Not exactly quintessential if it only meets 2/5 of the criteria.
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Old 01-03-2018, 07:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cookiepie788 View Post
No itís not. Itís a vowel phenomena set off by the great vowel shift. Irish people to not have an dialectical viariation of that kind. NCVS is pure American.
Great Vowel Shift predates NCVS by about 200-600 years buddyboyo.

NCVS happened mostly around the time of Erie Canal construction which was also the same time of massive immigrant influence in the Great Lakes.

The short O and U vowels of NCVS are identical to Irish variations. The Irish pronunciation of pub and bus is arguably identical and this is actually documented.

However not every aspect of a chain shift can be attributed to one historical event or even categories of events. But it is no surprise that the very Irish heavy Great Lakes cities have the shift to greater degrees than less Irish influenced areas further South.

Now I am not saying the Irish are the reason for every aspect of Inland North accents but rather Irish accent features are heavily retained in the Inland North accent as well as previously established Northern vowel patterns.

NCVS however is entirely American as it originated here and not elsewhere. But yes the vowel forms having Irish qualities in heavily Irish areas should be no surprise to anyone. Especially considering Irish influence in cities like Chicago which is the core of NCVS unlike Minnesota
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus View Post
Mainly, yes, but not exclusively. Unlike NY'ers African Americans in the Midwest do not take on the local accent with any pride, and usually have the predominant Southern drawal. MOST Hispanics and Asians have very thick Hispanic or Asian accents, and are not very assimilated with local culture yet (I am not speaking for each and every person, but rather, in general). Midwest cities are fairly segregated and polarized, which I think is the reason you have less assimilation and cultures tend to be isolated from one-another (still).
Black New Yorkers and white New Yorkers usually have different accents.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Does a normal Minnesota accent count as NCVS? Cuz I hear non-white Hispanics and Native Americans with that accent all the time. I even heard a few black people who say the "Minnesota O."

I have a black female friend from Cleveland who pronounces "daughter" like a New Yorker. "Dwautta."
Most New Yorkers don't speak like that

"Dawter" is the most common pronunciation
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
Black New Yorkers and white New Yorkers usually have different accents.
This
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Also the NCVS isn't limited to the Midwest and even extends into Rhode Island. It covers most of New York, the Northern tier of Pennsylvania near New York (especially Scranton and down to A-town), and Connecticut. It really is a defining Northern characteristic if anything. Characteristically and uniquely Midwest accents still exist south of 80.
Unless it's changed in the last decade, Connecticut (where I grew up) isn't anywhere near a full NCVS area. I never once heard the names Ian and Ann pronounced the same way. True NCVS doesn't begin until you get to the Mohawk Valley area of NY.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Unless it's changed in the last decade, Connecticut (where I grew up) isn't anywhere near a full NCVS area. I never once heard the names Ian and Ann pronounced the same way. True NCVS doesn't begin until you get to the Mohawk Valley area of NY.
See coverage map above. It isn't full NCVS but a lot of even the Inland North isn't anyway.

Ian and Ann don't rhyme in full NCVS either lol. But even in full NCVS places like Chicago nobody pronounces those names the same. Ian has a tensed I (IPA :i) and Ann has a tensed A (IPA: ɛə) which is basically the same A vowel used in the name Mary. And the name Mary doesn't have the vowel of Ian as that would sound silly.

The Inland North tenses the short A in all environments where in CT the short A would be tensed before nasals like M or N. But this means that NCVS in full effect would utilize the same sound of Ann for all environments; it would not however change how Ann is pronounced. Chicagoans pronounce Ann just like everyone else in most of the North and the US in general (maybe not the South). But we just extend the Ann vowel sound to all short A situations. We don't pronounce short A before nasals any different than you do, though.

Having NCVS also doesn't mean a dialect is Inland North, by the way. So CT can have partial NCVS but nobody in CT has a Chicago accent or anything like that.
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Reno, NV
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I can hear the NCVS pretty clearly in some of these Chicago Latinos, especially the guy at 2:55.

https://youtu.be/nDp5K9bTNRo
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Old 01-05-2018, 08:31 AM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,843,107 times
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Originally Posted by TheTimidBlueBars View Post
I can hear the NCVS pretty clearly in some of these Chicago Latinos, especially the guy at 2:55.

https://youtu.be/nDp5K9bTNRo
The host has the short U vowels down but his short A is not consistently tensed in full NCVS fashion. Though most of these people sounded Spanish influenced more than NCVS.

Girl at 3:52 has the raised A though when she says taxes but that's it. 4:43 the way this one says "best" is very Chicago.

Also most have the short O pronunciation down pretty well. The raised short A is not very present and I feel that is probably more of a White phenomenon. But you can hear in certain non-Whites that some aspect of the shift is present.

Good find
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