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Old 12-28-2013, 03:17 AM
 
Location: Hollywood, CA
1,576 posts, read 2,534,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post


I don't know where you're getting this idea that Austin and San Antonio have very little Southern culture compared to Houston and Dallas. That's just silly. Houston and Dallas are both big, diverse cities with more transplants from all over the nation and the world than either San Antonio or Austin. I'm guessing you didn't get out of central Texas too often during your 3 years living there.

And there's the I-35 thing again. I'll never understand why people think there's some massive cultural rift along that stretch of interstate. The only thing that changes from one side to the other is the topography, elevation, and some vegetation. And even then only slightly. The culture remains essentially unchanged all the way to somewhere just shy of El Paso.
The 35 is the geographical border from the drier West and the more forest covered East. And Fort Worth is where Texas starts to feel a bit more Western.

If you look at Austin and San Antonio historically. That area was settled by German immigrants who had a strong influence on the culture of Central Texas. German immigrants didn't make a large impact in the South compared to other areas. There's no towns like New Braunfels in the rest of the South. The Whites in those cities also speak with neutral type accents, and there are many transplants from other parts of the country. Especially from California. Which diluted whatever Southern culture was there even more.

And San Antonio and Texas south of it always had a Mexican influence and is mostly Mexican, with cities like Laredo and Brownsville on the border having close to 100% Mexican populations.

Florida is always picked as the least Southern state on this forum. But if you compare Texas with Florida as whole. Florida edges out Texas in feeling Southern by culture and topography. Even cities in South Florida have a Southern influence. Whereas the Trans-Pecos, San Antonio, and South Texas have almost zero Southern influence at all.

Let's get to the lowest common denominator here.

NFL Player Santana Moss from South Florida. Speaks in a Southern accent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrJQXp845io

Singer Selena from South Texas. No Southern accent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Z65HwP1i8
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Old 12-28-2013, 04:42 AM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,749,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atxcio View Post
And transplants..? I take it you've never been to Austin.
Lived there 3 separate times throughout my life actually, for a total of 6 years. Yes, I know there are lots of transplants there in the tech industry, most of whom are from California and mainly live in the Northern and Western suburbs. Austin still doesn't have the sheer volume of transplants that DFW and Houston have... who not only come from the West Coast, but from all over the world.

Also, my dad has lived in San Antonio since 1979, and even though I didn't grow up with him, I have spent so much time there over the years visiting that I have gotten a pretty good feel for S.A. It's Tex-Mex Southern all the way.

What some of you don't seem to be grasping, and I have stated this several times throughout this thread, is that not all Southern culture is just like the DEEP South states (Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina). Virginia has it's own distinct brand of colonial Southern culture. The Appalachian parts of Western North Carolina, Eastern Tennessee, Southeastern Kentucky, far-Northern Georgia, and parts of West Virginia have a very unique strain of Southern culture. Florida, South of roughly Orlando is it's own brand. Southern Louisiana is undeniably unique... but they are all still SOUTHERN. Texas, and I mean pretty much ALL of Texas, is also Southern in it's own unique way.

It's not meant as a put-down. It just is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hipcat View Post
If you look at Austin and San Antonio historically. That area was settled by German immigrants who had a strong influence on the culture of Central Texas. German immigrants didn't make a large impact in the South compared to other areas. There's no towns like New Braunfels in the rest of the South. The Whites in those cities also speak with neutral type accents, and there are many transplants from other parts of the country. Especially from California. Which diluted whatever Southern culture was there even more.
I'm very familiar with not only the history of Austin and San Antonio, but all of Texas. Texas History was required learning when I was in Junior High, and I have continued pursuing the state's history ever since.

The Germans you're referring to, as well as the Czech and Polish immigrants from the same wave of 48-ers settled not only in Central TX, but in many parts of coastal TX extending as far East as the Houston area. I myself am a descendant of the Polish part of the equation. My ancestors settled near Brenham, which is much closer to Houston than Austin.

New Braunfels wasn't the only place where German heritage remained well-preserved. Fredericksburg is probably an even better example, and then there's Schulenburg, Shiner, and the heavily settled Austin county, which sits right at the Western edge of the Houston metro. Houston actually has more Czech descendants than anywhere else in Texas. New Braunfels is more well-known, but that's mainly because it's part of the San Antonio metro and home of the what may arguably be the most famous water-themed amusement park in America (the Schlitterban).

And no, the White people in these areas don't speak with "neutral" accents. Maybe the really young ones do, but their accents are no different than any other native White Texan. I've heard plenty who have really thick accents. Many of them do still speak German though (to each other).

As far as California transplants, that is something that is hardly unique to Central TX. Go to the Houston or Dallas forums some time and look at all the "moving from CA - need advice" threads/posts. They'll be right next to the "moving from (pick a Northeastern or Midwestern state) - need advice" threads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hipcat View Post
And San Antonio and Texas south of it always had a Mexican influence and is mostly Mexican, with cities like Laredo and Brownsville on the border having close to 100% Mexican populations.
As I said earlier, Texas (and especially South TX) is a Southern state with a strong and historical Mexican influence in it's unique culture. No one in Louisiana seems to be claiming that just because the Southern half of their state is drenched in French, Spanish, and Creole culture and history, that they must revoke their Southern status. Why should South Texas be any different? You still hear the Southern accents down there, whether spoken by White people or Latinos. It just has a Latino edge to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hipcat View Post
Florida is always picked as the least Southern state on this forum. But if you compare Texas with Florida as whole. Florida edges out Texas in feeling Southern by culture and topography. Even cities in South Florida have a Southern influence. Whereas the Trans-Pecos, San Antonio, and South Texas have almost zero Southern influence at all.
With the exception of the part highlighted in bold, I agree with you here. South Florida, though very different from Texas or anywhere else in the South, is still part of the South and still has non-transplant native Southerners amidst it's population, but I have no experience living in Florida. I do, however, have a LOT of experience with living in Texas... so I'll stick to that particular part of the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hipcat View Post
NFL Player Santana Moss from South Florida. Speaks in a Southern accent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrJQXp845io

Singer Selena from South Texas. No Southern accent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Z65HwP1i8
And? I could also give you a ton of other examples of famous Houstonians who have no accent (Sean Patrick Flanery, Jennifer Garner, Renée Zellweger for example), and many more who do (Clint Black, Brent Spiner, Beyonce). Other than Selena, I can't think of any celebrities from Corpus, but I've been there enough times to have heard those accents in abundance.
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
7,183 posts, read 16,264,333 times
Reputation: 3474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
Lived there 3 separate times throughout my life actually, for a total of 6 years. Yes, I know there are lots of transplants there in the tech industry, most of whom are from California and mainly live in the Northern and Western suburbs. Austin still doesn't have the sheer volume of transplants that DFW and Houston have... who not only come from the West Coast, but from all over the world.
Austin has a higher percentage of transplants than DFW or Houston. And continues to get them at a higher rate than either of those other cities. Not in the 'burbs, either, but the city itself. In fact, he difference is even more pronounced when comparing cities themselves (as the transplant population in DFW and Houston seems to prefer suburbs). For example, did you know Austin (the city) has a higher percentage of Asians or people defining themselves as "two or more races" than Houston or Dallas?

But all Texas cities are flush with transplants, so it's really not a relevant argument as to which cities have more Southern culture.

Quote:
Also, my dad has lived in San Antonio since 1979, and even though I didn't grow up with him, I have spent so much time there over the years visiting that I have gotten a pretty good feel for S.A. It's Tex-Mex Southern all the way.
Tex-Mex and Southern aren't the same. SA is far more the former than the latter.

Quote:
What some of you don't seem to be grasping, and I have stated this several times throughout this thread, is that not all Southern culture is just like the DEEP South states (Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina). Virginia has it's own distinct brand of colonial Southern culture. The Appalachian parts of Western North Carolina, Eastern Tennessee, Southeastern Kentucky, far-Northern Georgia, and parts of West Virginia have a very unique strain of Southern culture. Florida, South of roughly Orlando is it's own brand. Southern Louisiana is undeniably unique... but they are all still SOUTHERN.
Pick whatever you think defines Southern culture -- politics, religion, racial/ethnic makeup, architecture, food -- and you'll find it most pronounced in the deep southern states. Like it or not, the deep South states are the benchmark for what people consider "Southern." And seeing how the subject of the thread is which states are least Southern, the more different or unique a state is from the deep south, the less "Southern" it is. Simple as that.
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,651 posts, read 36,106,549 times
Reputation: 63182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
In all actuality, the answer is both Texas and Oklahoma, because both states can also be considered the Southwest, and there are too many rugged, wild west frontier influences in the two states to even be considered southern to the extent Florida is. All of Florida, even South Florida, has populations that practice southern customs and mannerisms. I mean, there are areas of Texas that look like this:


http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...n-1024x768.jpg


http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...62d6d13bdc.jpg

How can it be more southern than Florida?
Cuz this is Texas too:







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Old 12-28-2013, 11:24 AM
 
Location: 304
5,093 posts, read 6,855,484 times
Reputation: 1697
Quote:
And? I could also give you a ton of other examples of famous Houstonians who have no accent (Sean Patrick Flanery, Jennifer Garner, Renée Zellweger for example), and many more who do (Clint Black, Brent Spiner, Beyonce). Other than Selena, I can't think of any celebrities from Corpus, but I've been there enough times to have heard those accents in abundance.
[/quote]

Jenifer Garner is from WV
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,651 posts, read 36,106,549 times
Reputation: 63182
Jenifer Garner is from WV[/quote]

Jennifer Garner was born in Houston. Her family moved to WV when she was a child and she lived there till she was in college. She went to college in Ohio.


Jennifer Garner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Hollywood, CA
1,576 posts, read 2,534,890 times
Reputation: 1119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
With the exception of the part highlighted in bold, I agree with you here. South Florida, though very different from Texas or anywhere else in the South, is still part of the South and still has non-transplant native Southerners amidst it's population, but I have no experience living in Florida. I do, however, have a LOT of experience with living in Texas... so I'll stick to that particular part of the discussion.
I traveled to Southern Florida few times. While most of the population is from the Northeast, Latin America, and the Caribbean. The Black population in those cities are still Southern, and the rural areas are just as Southern as the Panhandle. The Black Urban culture and slang in Miami is Southern with a Caribbean influence(like wearing dreads)

This rapper could easily be from Deep South by the way he sounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfzvO0Npvys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog

As I said earlier, Texas (and especially South TX) is a Southern state with a strong and historical Mexican influence in it's unique culture. No one in Louisiana seems to be claiming that just because the Southern half of their state is drenched in French, Spanish, and Creole culture and history, that they must revoke their Southern status. Why should South Texas be any different? You still hear the Southern accents down there, whether spoken by White people or Latinos. It just has a Latino edge to it.
This is Brownsville, TX. There's honesty nothing Southern about that place. This could be alot of Los Angeles to be real with you by the way they sound. The only Texan thing I see are the Cowboy jerseys. I've been throughout the South from Virginia to Texas, and this area is the least Southern influenced place in the South. The topic is which Southern state is least Southern. And its Texas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU1ejAe9PlM

Last edited by hipcat; 12-28-2013 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,651 posts, read 36,106,549 times
Reputation: 63182
I've lived in the American south most of my life - VA, NC, SC, GA, AL, TN, LA, AR, MD, and now Texas. Texas is very southern - it's just not the DEEP South. There is a big difference - though that difference may not be as apparent to people who are not native Southerners or who haven't actually lived in the various regions of the South (see above - I've lived in the mid-Atlantic region for 8 years, the deep South for 12 years, TN for 2 years, and the "ArkLaTex" region for 26 years so I'd say I'm pretty "fluent" in what's Southern and what's not!).

Though I live in East Texas, I have traveled all over this fine state. The influence of the American South can be felt even in WAAAAAYYYYYYYY south Texas. Fort Worth and Abilene and Wichita Falls and San Angelo definitely feel southern to me, though of course the further west you go, the more you feel the ADDITIONAL influence of the American West, and the further south you go, you will feel the ADDITIONAL influence of Mexico. But this is just MORE flavor added to the Southern flavor.

To me, Virginia is a very southern state, but it has regions that don't feel particularly southern (northeastern VA for example), due to the high numbers of non native residents and the close proximity to DC. Northern Arkansas doesn't feel particularly southern to me, though Arkansas in general definitely does. Florida has areas that don't feel southern to me, but in it's entirety it's definitely a southern state. Oklahoma has a very western feel to it topographically, but the people themselves sound and "act" southern in many ways. Kentucky and West Virginia feel very southern in many areas but definitely differ culturally from, say, Alabama and Mississippi.

In other words, there's southern and then there's the DEEP SOUTH. Both are good, but DEEP SOUTH is a subset of southern in general.
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,749,490 times
Reputation: 2258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscross309 View Post
Jenifer Garner is from WV
OK then, replace Jennifer Garner with Mireille Enos to even greater effect.

Has this really devolved into a celebrity thread?

Last edited by Bobloblawslawblog; 12-28-2013 at 12:40 PM..
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Old 12-28-2013, 12:36 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
8,931 posts, read 11,794,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Texas is very southern - it's just not the DEEP South.
This is one little thing we still don't quite agree on--of course not that the entirety of the state is included in that region, but, rather, whether or not certain parts of it are.
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