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Old 12-28-2013, 02:57 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,069 posts, read 2,200,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
With what fact? I covered a range of things here. Be specific.

Is it that I left out the part about Houston being a tropical futuristic paradise?
No, I am saying that you established a fact that there are many different sub-regions in South, each with their own unique culture, but each of the unique cultures is still a form of Southern culture. If that's the case, there really is no such thing as "the least southern state in the south."
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,753,470 times
Reputation: 2258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
No, I am saying that with the fact that there are many different regions in South, each with their own unique culture, there really is no such thing as "which state is the least southern."
Well there you go then. You figured it all out. Give yourself a big pat on the back.
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Old 12-28-2013, 04:48 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,883 posts, read 36,203,761 times
Reputation: 63544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
No, I am saying that you established a fact that there are many different sub-regions in South, each with their own unique culture, but each of the unique cultures is still a form of Southern culture. If that's the case, there really is no such thing as "the least southern state in the south."
I totally agree with this statement!
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
7,183 posts, read 16,274,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
Can you back that claim with some facts? Not saying you're wrong, but I'm pretty skeptical. Some actual data on that would help.

...

This part actually is wrong. Or at least not completely true. If you've ever spent any significant amount of time in the central areas of either of these cities, you'll find an even more diverse mix of people who have recently moved to Houston or Dallas from all over the world, as opposed to the suburbs, where it's mostly White professionals from other parts of the country.
I am correct. All I can say is, just do your homework. You can look it up on this very site! It's census data from 2010, but you can find even newer data on census.gov, showing the same thing. Anecdotal evidence about inner-city Houston neighborhoods aside, the actual census data is pretty clear:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Austin-Texas.html

http://www.city-data.com/city/Dallas-Texas.html

http://www.city-data.com/city/Houston-Texas.html

Now if you want to argue the 'burbs or the metros, fine, but that's a different animal.

Quote:
Actually, since "Tex-Mex" is something that's completely unique to Texas, which whether you like it or not, IS a Southern state... it is a Southern American and Mexican hybrid culture by default. The only difference (with the rest of the South) is that it's a culture you'll mainly only find in Texas.
Exactly, it's unique to Texas. No other southern state has it. And San Antonio is more Tex-Mex than any of the major Texas cities -- like Dallas or Houston. You said that yourself. Or did you forget what we were discussing here? I have not claimed that Texas isn't a southern state, BTW. I was simply refuting your notion that DFW or Houston is less Southern than SA or Austin. That is obviously false.

The rest of your info, while interesting, seems to be trying to dispute something I never claimed -- that being unique somehow makes a state non-southern. Of course it doesn't. I already said every state is unique.

Quote:
If the Deep South is the "benchmark" in your mind, then that's your choice to look at it that way. I don't.
Oh, it's not just me. Again, pick your poison -- any metric you want to use to describe what you feel defines "Southern Culture". I'll show you it's more prevalent in the deep south than states like Florida, Texas, or even Virginia (at least now).

I guess where we can agree to disagree is that you feel there is no such thing as a "less Southern" or "more Southern" state. In other words, you think there is no "degree" of Southernness. And I couldn't disagree more.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Ohio, USA
1,085 posts, read 1,347,358 times
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Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, and Missouri. If those four count.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,753,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atxcio View Post
I am correct. All I can say is, just do your homework. You can look it up on this very site! It's census data from 2010, but you can find even newer data on census.gov, showing the same thing. Anecdotal evidence about inner-city Houston neighborhoods aside, the actual census data is pretty clear:

http://www.city-data.com/city/Austin-Texas.html

http://www.city-data.com/city/Dallas-Texas.html

http://www.city-data.com/city/Houston-Texas.html
Here's where I have a problem with these pie-charts and census data; though it is statistically correct, it doesn't really take into account some of the grey areas. What I mean by that is things like how much area a city's political boundaries encompass. Normally, that's not a big deal. However, when you take into account the ridiculous and anomalous size of the city of Houston (628 sq. miles), perception becomes a bit skewed.

I realize that to someone who is not from Houston, this probably seems insignificant, but when you compare a lot of this data to firsthand personal experience, it doesn't match up. In very recent history Houston has annexed suburbs that are as far as 30 miles away from it's city hall.

Imagine if Austin annexed Bastrop, Dripping Springs, and Taylor. Then think about what that would do to the city's stats. Would it mean that central, or even near-central Austin would suddenly lose it's local flavor and feel like a different city all of a sudden? No, of course not. However, outsiders staring at pie charts are going to see a different picture. Sorry if that doesn't make sense, but long-time Houstonians understand how this works.

Anyway, the data I was asking you about had to do with the rate of transplant migration in Austin versus Dallas and Houston, as you were stating earlier that it's significantly higher in Austin. I'm not seeing anything in these links that covers that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atxcio View Post
Exactly, it's unique to Texas. No other southern state has it. And San Antonio is more Tex-Mex than any of the major Texas cities -- like Dallas or Houston. You said that yourself. Or did you forget what we were discussing here? I have not claimed that Texas isn't a southern state, BTW. I was simply refuting your notion that DFW or Houston is less Southern than SA or Austin. That is obviously false.
No, it's definitely not "obviously" false. To you it is maybe, but to me and many, many others... Austin is at the very least, just as Southern as Houston or Dallas. Just because it's a little further West and leans a little more left politically doesn't change that.

And how did I "forget" what we were discussing here? I know that earlier I was responding to you as well as another poster in the same post, and perhaps something that I meant to direct towards him was mistakenly misplaced towards you. If that's the case, then my bad. I just know that some posters in this thread have tried to argue that the Mexican influence in Texas' culture and history somehow disqualifies Texas from being Southern, and I strongly disagree.

And to be fair, you did say that "Tex-Mex and Southern aren't the same". Maybe you meant something else, but I was only refuting by saying that "Tex-Mex" is just another strain of Southern culture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atxcio View Post
The rest of your info, while interesting, seems to be trying to dispute something I never claimed -- that being unique somehow makes a state non-southern. Of course it doesn't. I already said every state is unique.
Once again, if I misdirected one of my responses that was meant for someone else at you, then I apologize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atxcio View Post
Oh, it's not just me. Again, pick your poison -- any metric you want to use to describe what you feel defines "Southern Culture". I'll show you it's more prevalent in the deep south than states like Florida, Texas, or even Virginia (at least now).
I'm not denying that. Not one bit. I grew up in Texas and have traveled extensively throughout the South, and obviously the Deep South states have retained more of their old culture than states like Texas and Florida. However, I don't gauge the rest of the Southern states on "the big four" (MS, AL, GA, SC).

If the benchmark thing is the rule, and I have no choice but to follow it, then I'll definitely concede that Texas is far less Southern... but it's NOT the rule, and I don't have to follow it. It's just a very popular way of thinking about these things. I don't think that way. Maybe that makes me a bit mentally ill? I dunno. Maybe I'll call a shrink as soon as I begin to question my own sanity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atxcio View Post
I guess where we can agree to disagree is that you feel there is no such thing as a "less Southern" or "more Southern" state. In other words, you think there is no "degree" of Southernness. And I couldn't disagree more.
Once again, it's all in how you look at it. It's not a matter of "degree" to me. It's a matter of variety in Southern culture/topography/climate/history. The kind of Southern culture you find in central Mississippi is so different from the kind of culture you find in coastal Virginia, which in turn is totally different from the Tex-Mex Southern culture in South TX, and then Southern Louisiana, and so on and so on.... I really don't understand how you can measure it all in "degrees".

But yes... let's just agree to disagree. We've hammered this thing to death.

Last edited by Bobloblawslawblog; 12-28-2013 at 07:15 PM..
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:59 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,069 posts, read 2,200,493 times
Reputation: 1329
Lets end this silly thread. Bobloblawslawblog's words have enlightened me, and as a result, I see how silly of a concept this thread is. I mean, you don't see any , "Which Northern states is the least northern?" or "Which Midwestern state is the least midwestern?" In the end, I realize the South is all one great region with many sub-regions in it. Each of the sub regions has their own culture, but in the end, they are all.... Southern.
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,883 posts, read 36,203,761 times
Reputation: 63544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
Lets end this silly thread. Bobloblawslawblog's words have enlightened me, and as a result, I see how silly of a concept this thread is. I mean, you don't see any , "Which Northern states is the least northern?" or "Which Midwestern state is the least midwestern?" In the end, I realize the South is all one great region with many sub-regions in it. Each of the sub regions has their own culture, but in the end, they are all.... Southern.
Right on.
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:38 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,069 posts, read 2,200,493 times
Reputation: 1329
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Right on.
Yeah. Thanks to Bobloslablog, or whatever his handle is, it all makes sense to me.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:14 PM
 
Location: OKIE-Ville
5,413 posts, read 7,711,457 times
Reputation: 3054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
Lets end this silly thread. Bobloblawslawblog's words have enlightened me, and as a result, I see how silly of a concept this thread is. I mean, you don't see any , "Which Northern states is the least northern?" or "Which Midwestern state is the least midwestern?" In the end, I realize the South is all one great region with many sub-regions in it. Each of the sub regions has their own culture, but in the end, they are all.... Southern.
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