U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 12-30-2013, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,144,045 times
Reputation: 809

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Not necessarily. I did the calculations according to the Census Bureau's definition (Delaware is in the South according to the CB). In an attempt to reflect political and cultural realities, I took those 4,100 people from the "South" column and added them to the "Northeast" (which is beyond fair since parts of Delaware are not "northeastern").

I excluded Virginia because, as I said, I wasn't able to disaggregate Virginians living in the DC metro area that moved to Maryland (e.g., someone relocating from Alexandria to Silver Spring) from Virginians living outside of the metro area that moved to Maryland. There are a lot of people from Blacksburg, Chesapeake, Hampton, Roanoke, etc. that move to the DC area too. But since there was no way of telling where in Virginia people are coming from, I just left it out altogether.

If anything, I'd say it's a wash. You have a roughly equal proportion of southerners and northerners moving to the area. And it's extremely far from "Yankee" dominance.
Was anyone saying that it was Yankee dominance?

The vast majority of people moving from Delaware to the DC metro area are Northeasterners, though. Even those in the Delaware beaches consider themselves to be Northerners.

As for separating Virginia, the closest thing I can find is this link: American Migration [Interactive Map] - Forbes

In 2010:
Lynchburg: 24
Chesterfield: 35
Richmond: 95
Henrico: 69
James City: 25
Newport News: 34
Hampton City: 26
Chesapeake City: 25
Virginia Beach City: 83
Norfolk City: 61
Albemarle: 40
Winchester: 13

Of the DC Metro Area
Spotsylvania: 22
Stafford: 48
Fauquier: 21
Prince William: 274
Loudon: 267
Fairfax: 1,677
Arlington: 2,390
Manassas: 24
Fredricksburg: 14
Falls Church: 38


I can't zoom in enough to get some of the smaller independent cities, but you can probably calculate a ratio from this. I get roughly 10% of the Virginians moving into DC are from outside the metro area (technically 9.99%). You can probably do the other counties in the metro area, if you feel so inclined.

What would the percentages be if you took 10% of the Virginia population and added it to the South total?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-30-2013, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,797 posts, read 36,172,094 times
Reputation: 63457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis. View Post
I lived in SugarLand TX for like two weeks in 2012 , took a job out there without ever going there and I decided it wasn't for me.

I don't have anything against TX, just seems a lot different to me than from the southeastern states.
Two weeks doesn't really count - sorry. That's just a short visit.

And it IS different in some ways from the southeastern states, but that doesn't make it "less southern." The American South is not limited to the southeastern states.

And you didn't answer my question either. You said you consider the south to be the original colonies, so I'll ask again - do you consider Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Florida and Arkansas southern?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2013, 04:57 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,069 posts, read 2,199,368 times
Reputation: 1329
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Texas is SOUTH. As far as east or west, it's pretty much exactly in the middle of the nation.

Heck, it wasn't even on the western border of the nation during the Civil War, since California and Oregon were already states by then!
I was just kidding.

However, it it true that Texas, although defined as Southern by the US Census, has a frontier western element to it that can be seen all across the state.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2013, 05:00 PM
 
467 posts, read 457,703 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Two weeks doesn't really count - sorry. That's just a short visit.

And it IS different in some ways from the southeastern states, but that doesn't make it "less southern." The American South is not limited to the southeastern states.

And you didn't answer my question either. You said you consider the south to be the original colonies, so I'll ask again - do you consider Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Florida and Arkansas southern?
Well, that was a rough draft. lol Was Texas part of the Confederacy?

to me the southeasst is Carolinas, Virginia, eastern Tn, northern florida, georgia, alabama except mobile

Texas has a strong hispanic and southwestern culture

part of it is Texas metroes are huge compared to most cities in the southeast.

Texas landscape looks a lot different from the southeast, pretty boring.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2013, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
Was anyone saying that it was Yankee dominance?
That is what people have said. You often get this impression that the DC area has radically changed because of scores of Northeasterners taking over the region. The region has changed, but it's not because of that. The region's growth has been fueled by African Americans largely from the South (300% increase) and immigrants from Latin America and Asia. None of those groups have any "Yankee" culture to bring to the region. The "Yankees" that have moved to the region have been entirely offset by the non-Yankees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
The vast majority of people moving from Delaware to the DC metro area are Northeasterners, though. Even those in the Delaware beaches consider themselves to be Northerners.
It's not about who's a northerner and who's not. Unless we can ask people where they grew up (and survey them), then we have no way to know who's a "northeasterner." All we can do is get a sense of what part of the region people are coming from. I only included Delaware as part of the "Northeast" because people would go HAM if I didn't. Consider it an act of generosity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
What would the percentages be if you took 10% of the Virginia population and added it to the South total?
I don't know. One problem with doing that is that many of the people moving from Virginia to Maryland are probably migrants from outside of the area (say someone moves to Arlington from California and then moves to Bethesda a year later). The bigger problem is that Virginia is not a northeastern state. So if we're going to talk about people moving to the DC area from the Northeast, we can't include places that aren't in the Northeast. The numbers only reflect where people have moved from, not where they grew up or how they self-identify.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 12-30-2013 at 05:13 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2013, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,144,045 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
That is what people have said. You often get this impression that the DC area has radically changed because of scores of Northeasterners taking over the region. The region has changed, but it's not because of that. The region's growth has been fueled by African Americans largely from the South (300% increase) and immigrants from Latin America and Asia. None of those groups have any "Yankee" culture to bring to the region. The "Yankees" that have moved to the region have been entirely offset by the non-Yankees.
Perhaps. It's fairly easy to distinguish the immigrant influx, though. DC is gaining a lot of Hispanics, but is the culture becoming more Hispanic? My LA friends will largely disagree with that statement.

Quote:
I don't know. One problem with doing that is that many of the people moving from Virginia to Maryland are probably migrants from outside of the area (say someone moves to Arlington from California and then moves to Bethesda a year later). The bigger problem is that Virginia is not a northeastern state. So if we're going to talk about people moving to the DC area from the Northeast, we can't include places that aren't in the Northeast. The numbers only reflect where people have moved from, not where they grew up or how they self-identify.
I was counting Virginia outside the DC metro area as the South. Some of the DC metro area is widely considered the South as well.

Anyway, this could be largely of no use, but the counties from which DC received the most transplants in 2010, according to that link I posted above (top 20):

New York - 934
Cook (IL) - 654
Los Angeles - 543
Middlesex (MA) - 471
Kings (NY) - 409
Baltimore (city) - 400
Anne Arundel (MD) - 331*
Philadelphia - 292
San Diego - 277
King (WA) - 253
Suffolk (MA) - 253
Fulton (GA) - 235
Miami-Dade - 221
Baltimore (County) - 200
Alameda (CA) - 191
Maricopa (AZ) - 172
Harris (TX) - 163
Howard (MD) - 161*
Queens (NY) - 159
Wake (NC) - 147

*Are Howard and Anne Arundel still a part of the Baltimore MSA? Westchester, NY and Hennepin, MN are the next two.

In answer to your metro question from earlier, it seems DC (just the city) was averaging about 14,500 Americans moving there from 2005 to 2010. If that was close to accurate for 2010, then DC itself received somewhere between 25-30% of its American migrants from the Philadelphia, New York, and Boston MSAs (this does not count CSAs or other Northeastern cities close to these areas like Worcester or Lancaster). Data is from the link earlier, so if it doesn't jive with what you have, then blame Forbes.

Last edited by pgm123; 12-30-2013 at 05:34 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2013, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,797 posts, read 36,172,094 times
Reputation: 63457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis. View Post
Well, that was a rough draft. lol Was Texas part of the Confederacy?

to me the southeasst is Carolinas, Virginia, eastern Tn, northern florida, georgia, alabama except mobile

Texas has a strong hispanic and southwestern culture

part of it is Texas metroes are huge compared to most cities in the southeast.

Texas landscape looks a lot different from the southeast, pretty boring.
Texas was part of the Confederacy. Did you really not know that?

Texas has a mixture of Mexican, Spanish, southwestern, AND southern culture (with a dose of French culture in the southeast section). Tennessee has a mixture of southern and mountain culture. Louisiana has a mixture of deep south, French, Spanish, African, and Caribbean cultures. Arkansas has a mixture of deep south and mountain cultures.

Texas is huge, so though it does have large metro areas, much of it is rural, just as much of the rest of the south is rural. Agriculture played and still plays a huge role in the state's economy, like much of the rest of the south.

East Texas (as in just about the entire eastern half of the state) looks like much of the rest of the south.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2013, 05:49 PM
 
467 posts, read 457,703 times
Reputation: 84
lol East Texas in no way looks like the southeast.

Were any Civil war battles fought in Texas?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2013, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,144,045 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis. View Post
lol East Texas in no way looks like the southeast.

Were any Civil war battles fought in Texas?
Yeah, there were a handful. They primarily took place on the sea since the Union was trying to blockade the Texas coast, but they didn't do particularly well in Texas. I don't think any major cities were captured (maybe Brownsville was the biggest).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2013, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,797 posts, read 36,172,094 times
Reputation: 63457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis. View Post
lol East Texas in no way looks like the southeast.

Were any Civil war battles fought in Texas?
I have lived in the southeast (for, oh, let's see, a total of about 15 years) from Virginia to Alabama and just about every state in between (including SC), and when my friends from those regions visit me in east Texas they INVARIABLY remark on how much like parts of GA, SC, and AL east Texas looks - rolling hills, pastures, fields, trees, lakes, rivers, you name it. The weather is even very similar. Similar plants and other vegetation too (minus the kudzu so far, thank goodness, though it has appeared here and there in our state). I think it looks very similar myself.

Here are a few shots from right around here in east Texas:





(Grandbabies picking blackberries)


View from my front porch:


Fun on the lake:


Summer storm:


View down the driveway at our old house a few miles from here:


View across the pasture ...early on a frosty mornin' (look away, look away, look away...Dixie Land! LOL)


Looks pretty darn southern to me.

As for Civil War battles in Texas, yes, there were a few. Here's info on one in particular:

Second Battle of Sabine Pass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Union Army blockaded the port in Galveston for four years and occupied the port for several months till it was recaptured by Confederate forces in 1863. A few other cities also fell to Union troops at times during the war, including Port Lavaca, Indianola, and Brownsville. Federal attempts to seize control of Laredo, Corpus Christi, and Sabine Pass failed.
Texas in the American Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There was a POW camp just down the road from me, in fact, housing Union prisoners:
Camp Ford - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And here are a few notable Civil War personalities from Texas:
John Bell Hood gained fame as the commander of the Texas Brigade in the Army of Northern Virginia and played a prominent role as an army commander late in the war. "Sul" Ross was a significant leader in a number of Trans-Mississippi Confederate armies. Felix Huston Robertson was the only native Texan Confederate general. Capt. TJ Goree was one of Lt. General James Longstreet's most trusted aides. John H. Reagan was an influential member of Jefferson Davis's cabinet. Col. Santos Benavides was a Confederate colonel during the American Civil War. Benavides was the highest-ranking Tejano soldier to serve in the Confederate military.
Texas in the American Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My gosh, my kids attended Robert E Lee High School in Tyler, Texas for pete's sake. Up till the 1980s or so, the school's team mascot was the Rebel - the REL Rebels (it was changed to the REL Raiders eventually). In the 1960s, when Lee's mascot was the Rebel, the school was famous for its working cannon and oversized Confederate flag. A group of seniors tended the cannon at games, firing it when the Rebel football team scored a touchdown. The football team entered Rose Stadium by running under the flag, reputed to be the second largest Confederate flag in the world (second only to one owned by the University of Mississippi). By 1972, the flag was retired and its whereabouts are unknown. The cannon, retired in 1986, is now the property of Brook Hill High School in Bullard, Texas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_..._(Tyler,_Texas)

The other high school in Tyler is John Tyler High School. Does that name ring a bell? He was the 10th president of the USA, and he also served in the CONFEDERATE House of Representatives. Tyler, an advocate of Western expansionism, made the annexation of the Republic of Texas part of his platform soon after becoming President. Texas had declared independence from Mexico in the Texas Revolution of 1836, although Mexico still refused to acknowledge it as a sovereign state. The people of Texas actively pursued joining the Union, but Jackson and Van Buren had been reluctant to inflame tensions over slavery by annexing another Southern state. Tyler, on the other hand, intended annexation to be the focal point of his administration.
John Tyler High School - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Last edited by KathrynAragon; 12-30-2013 at 06:43 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top