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Old 12-30-2013, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,099 posts, read 4,735,887 times
Reputation: 5374

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Quote:
Originally Posted by $mk8795 View Post
If we go by your strange logic then Virginia and North Carolina is not Southern....
There is nowhere in North Carolina, and I dare say most of Virginia where you can be in New Jersey in less than two hours by car.
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:58 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,806,644 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
That actually helps my argument.
And again if we by your strange logic then Virginia and North Carolina is Northern States.......
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:08 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,806,644 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Either you are dumb or a troll.

A good third of Texas looks just like Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi.
Its no more "dumb or trolling" than some characters constantly arguing against the proven Fact that Maryland and Delaware is in the South.......
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:11 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,806,644 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
There is nowhere in North Carolina, and I dare say most of Virginia where you can be in New Jersey in less than two hours by car.
If you claim that Maryland and Delaware are Northern States then Virginia and North Carolina are definitely Northern States too......
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:53 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,633 posts, read 27,060,365 times
Reputation: 9577
Quote:
Originally Posted by $mk8795 View Post
If you claim that Maryland and Delaware are Northern States then Virginia and North Carolina are definitely Northern States too......
That makes zero sense. Especially regarding North Carolina.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,099 posts, read 4,735,887 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spade View Post
That makes zero sense. Especially regarding North Carolina.
Eh he's just gonna keep trolling like usual, spouting nonsense and shouting about Maryland haters.

I'm going to let this one be from here out.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,144,045 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
The culture is absolutely becoming more Hispanic. I fail to see how that couldn't be the case. It's like on the one hand you believe that domestic migrants from the Northeast have greatly impacted the DC area's culture (even though migrants from the Northeast constitute a small minority of overall domestic migrants to the region). But then on the other hand you don't think that Hispanics have greatly impacted the area's culture. It's much easier to find an empanada in the DC area nowadays than italian ice, Taylor Ham, cannoli, etc.
Oh, that's not what I meant. I meant that it's not changing the mainstream culture of DC (like the Hispanic influx changed the mainstream cultures of Miami and Los Angeles). It hasn't changed how the Anglo-Whites act.

I can only think of three places to get water ice (two Rita's and Taylor Charles Steak and Ice), though I haven't exactly looked. I think your conception of the Northeast is different from mine since you seem to think it's Italian food and pork rolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You can make it easier on yourself by just going to the Census website and opening the spreadsheets for state to state migration flows. Since DC is a "state" for their purposes, you can simply look at the number of people moving into DC from different states. Then categorize the states by region and you've got the numbers you're looking for.
I really quite hate navigating the census website, though I guess it's easier than what I was doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
My guess is that the numbers between 2005 and 2010 would be fairly similar to the numbers for 2012. In 2012, 32% of domestic migrants to the District of Columbia came from the Northeast, 31.2% from the West, 22.8% from the South, and 13.9% from the Midwest.
I took this list: State-to-State Migration Flows: 2007-2009, American Community Survey 3-Year Estimates
Universe: Population 1 year and over who moved within or between states, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico.

Counting Delaware as a part of the Northeast, taking only 10% of Virginia's population flow to DC (which I found earlier), and just ignoring Maryland I got: 39.8% from the Northeast, 26.8% from the South, 18.6% from the West, and 14.4% from the Midwest.

Edit: There's a good chance I messed up these numbers. I'll check them in the morning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Northeasterners and Westerners are "over-represented" compared to their population flows to the region as a whole. Southerners are under-represented and Midwesterners have the same percentage of migrants moving to the city. That said, it's still the case that the overwhelming majority of DC transplants are not coming from the Northeast. And the 2012 numbers are more pertinent, imo, because: (1) the population flows were larger and (2) these people are likely still living in the city (as opposed to someone who moved to the District in 2005 only to move away two years later).
Population flows to the region as a whole is largely irrelevant.

It would be interesting to figure out who tends to move here and stay vs those who move here and leave. That could give some insight into culture shock. I can only argue through anecdote, unfortunately, so I'll understand when you take this with a grain of salt. But my California friends constantly complain how the culture is very different in DC from California (even small things I take as standard behavior like jaywalking is something they find terrible when I do it (they say people in DC have no respect for drivers)). Similarly my Midwestern friends say the attitude in DC is very different (they say Northeastern, but you can choose a different term). My Southern friends don't really complain, but they do say DC is not Southern when I ask them (one friend is from South Carolina; the other was born in Virginia, but he spent more of his life in Alabama than any other state).


Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It's also important to note that the inflows into the city are miniscule compared to the inflows into the suburbs. So the few northeasterners moving to the District--who are a minority even within domestic migration flows to DC--are not going to have much of an impact in the region at large vis-a-vis non-Northeasterners. The DC area has really been more "southernized," "westernized" and "midwesternized" than it has been "northernized." I personally would use the term "homogenized." And the data seems to back that up.
Yeah, but there's a degree of assimilation that is bound to occur, especially since (despite the huge reputation as a transplant city), there is a large population from this area who still live here. What is that culture? From my friends, I can say the White population tends to be fairly conservative, but not Southern. For example, one of my friends is from PG County. He is extremely conservative, but also thinks that those who wear the Confederate flag are traitors (I'm not saying he's necessarily representative--there are people in North East, MD who fly Confederate flags). He speaks with a Maryland accent (or is that Merlin accent?). Culturally, he's a pretty good fit with Delaware, with the exception of the Redskins stuff.

You are right about the movements to the suburbs. While it's normally argued that culture comes from the center, I should look into that.

Last edited by pgm123; 12-31-2013 at 12:35 AM..
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Old 12-31-2013, 02:15 AM
 
Location: Shaw.
2,226 posts, read 3,144,045 times
Reputation: 809
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
You are right about the movements to the suburbs. While it's normally argued that culture comes from the center, I should look into that.
Well, I have to say the results were a surprise to me. This is for the entire DC Metro Area:
38.1% from the South
23.0% from the Northeast
16.3% from the West
11.4% from Maryland (outside the DC metro)
11.3% from the Midwest

Now, if we exclude the exurban counties, which I think are pretty Southern, we end up with:
35.7% from the South
24.6% from the Northeast
16.3% from the West
11.8% from Maryland (outside the DC metro)
11.7% from the Midwest

Now in terms of where people are coming from for each part of the DMV.

DC:
40% Northeast
21.6% South
18.1% West
15.6% Midwest
4.6% Maryland (outside the DC metro)

MD (DC metro):
25.4% Maryland (outside the DC metro)
23.4% Northeast
14.7% South
12.3% West
10% Midwest

VA (Suburban and Core):
45% South
21.4% West
20.4% Northeast
12.2% Midwest
4% Maryland

People aren't really moving from Baltimore or Annapolis to DC or Virginia, but they are going to PG, Bethesda, etc. This is relative to overall growth as the Virginia suburbs are growing really fast (so maybe they are moving to Virginia, but not as much as everyone else). Northeastern people are more willing to move into DC then the rest of the country. This is also in relative terms as NE people prefer the suburbs in absolute terms. I was really surprised how many people were moving to Virginia from the South. This isn't just Virginia-to-Virginia. North Carolina and Houston had the two largest county-to-county transfers to Virginia (to Fairfax).

Anyway, I don't know if this really shows anything, but I spent a ton of time on it, so let's just pretend it does.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:48 AM
 
320 posts, read 473,886 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
Yes, its such an interesting juxtaposition, but it still doesn't change the fact that Texas is the West.

If you think Texas is not the South but in the West, where are Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South and North Dakota? The West too?
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
Oh, that's not what I meant. I meant that it's not changing the mainstream culture of DC (like the Hispanic influx changed the mainstream cultures of Miami and Los Angeles). It hasn't changed how the Anglo-Whites act.
Hispanics haven't changed the way Anglo-Whites act in New York. That doesn't mean that Hispanics haven't changed the culture. It just means that many whites (especially the Anglo-Whites in Manhattan) lead insular lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
I can only think of three places to get water ice (two Rita's and Taylor Charles Steak and Ice), though I haven't exactly looked.
Philadelphia Water Ice on H Street. The owner is from Germantown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgm123 View Post
I think your conception of the Northeast is different from mine since you seem to think it's Italian food and pork rolls.
C'mon, man. That wasn't the point.

It's clear we have different criteria, however. Demographics matter. I mean, what defines the culture of a region more than the actual people living in it? You just can't cherrypick the things you think make DC similar to Northeastern cities, but then dismiss the things that obviously make it easily distinguishable from those cities.

Having lived in Boston (college), New York (work), Philly (home) and DC (work/family), I see a lot in common among the first three. They each have a ton of white, working class Catholic voters (which affects the politics quite a bit). They also have African American and Puerto Rican working class populations that share many of the expressive elements of the white working class population (accent, vernacular, dress to some extent, etc.). Although there are many other groups in these cities beyond the aforementioned, these groups form the general ethnic substrate of Northeastern cities from Rochester to Reading to New Haven (though the size of each group changes from city to city).

The DC area could not be any more different. But you have to look beyond Anglo-Whites to see this. I mean, yeah, you could say that the white people walking around Back Bay are the same as the white people walking around Georgetown. But that's not even close to considering all of the different types of people that live in the region. Besides, the things that people generally associate with the Northeast (accents, foods, etc.) are the products of the working classes, not the Creative Class lawyers, bankers and web designers that inhabit tony suburbs and hip urban enclaves.
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