U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 01-31-2014, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,102 posts, read 4,743,366 times
Reputation: 5374

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_J View Post
Imo, the ranking of non-southernness to southern goes:

Delaware (would not consider Southern in the slightest)
Maryland + DC metro area (some Southern influence but generally not Southern)
Florida (South + Central Florida have their own unique culture, not Northern per se but certainly not Southern)
West Virginia (upper 1/3 is not Southern, middle 1/3 is transitional leaning Southern and lower 1/3 is Southern without a doubt)
Oklahoma (Midwestern influences present in upper + central part of state, Southwestern influences in far western part)
Kentucky (Cincinnati area might as well be part of the Midwest, rest is solidly Southern although Louisville has a few Midwestern influences)

and Texas is somewhere around Tennessee's level - the only thing not Southern about it is West Texas (mainly the El Paso region) which accounts for only a small amount of the population.
I agree.

Though curiously, I have been told several times now that even into New Mexico you can hear southern accents abroad.

Fun fact: Did you know that Arizona and New Mexico were Confederate territory?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-31-2014, 03:25 PM
 
Location: MD suburbs of DC
607 posts, read 1,093,678 times
Reputation: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Though curiously, I have been told several times now that even into New Mexico you can hear southern accents abroad.
Indeed. The Southern accent is associated with the Southern Great Plains on east, and the eastern side of the state ventures into that territory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieSkoon View Post
Fun fact: Did you know that Arizona and New Mexico were Confederate territory?
Yup, but they quickly developed their own Southwestern culture and weren't even states at the time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 05:23 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,933,234 times
Reputation: 4077
There are influences of the other regions in all four regions of the U.S. Our subcultures are not insulated like they were prior to 1950. The rise of automobiles, air travel, the internet and other media, and increasing transplants have watered down regional culture across the U.S., but it's no reason to remove parts of the South and add them to another region. At some point we just have to draw some boundaries and stick with them rather than constantly debating the placement of transition areas.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 05:41 PM
 
320 posts, read 474,299 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
Yeh, I'm with CookieSkoon, I think this is pretty accurate. I'd make a few slight variations and bump up the percentages on most of 'em as outside of the major cities in most of these states there is an overt Southern culture present:

Alabama = 100%
Mississippi = 100%
South Carolina = 95%
Georgia = 95%
Louisiana = 95%
Tennessee = 95%
North Carolina = 85% (this number will continue to drop most likely due to the Triangle)
Arkansas = 85% (due to less transplantation with the exception of the NW quadrant)
Texas = 80% (transplants/Hispanic culture is moving in, but there are still huge Southern swaths)
Kentucky = 75% (hugs the bottom of the Midwest/Ohio)
Oklahoma = 70% (only due to less transplantation, like Kentucky hugs the bottom of the Midwest/KS)
Virginia = 40% (only due to excessive transplantation)
Florida = 40% (only due to excessive transplantation)
West Virginia = 30% (only due to less transplantation)
Missouri = 20% (the Census has Missouri grouped in the Midwest for the vast majority is Midwestern)
Maryland = 10% (only listed here due to the Census' inclusion)
Delaware = <5% (only listed here due to the Census' inclusion)
The reality is that none of the southern states are 100% southern in culture anymore.There are transplants moving into the Birmingham, Mobile, Huntsville and Gulfport/Biloxi areas of Alabama and Mississippi. I live in Georgia and there are communities of Mexicans, Asians, etc. here outside of Atlanta.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,348 posts, read 7,432,603 times
Reputation: 6785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiRob View Post
^ so influential was Henry Flagler to our state they even have a county named for him in the northern part of the state as well!
From Wikipedia :

Flagler County is a county on the east coast of the U.S. state of Florida. Created in 1917 from portions of Saint Johns and Volusia counties, it was named for Henry Morrison Flagler, who built the Florida East Coast Railway. Bunnell is the county seat of Flagler County.

One can also see the beautiful hotels he built in St. Augustine as well.

PS: Go try to find a "Confederate" memorial or statue in most of the state of Florida. It's mostly in the panhandle region or the northern parts of the state.
Because the northern most parts of the state were the only parts somewhat populated by southerners of European descent during the colonial and antebellum periods, which was when most of what we know as "southern" culture today evolved. The rest of the state was just too tropical to be considered a practical place to live due to heat and the prevalence of insect-borne diseases and diseases that were not killed out by a hard frost that they did not yet have cures for. If you do any research on Florida units in the Civil War, the few that existed were formed in the extreme northern reaches if the state, which probably identifies culturally much more with places like Mobile and Savannah than places like Tampa or Miami.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 06:31 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,933,234 times
Reputation: 4077
Quote:
Originally Posted by SawBoi View Post
The reality is that none of the southern states are 100% southern in culture anymore.There are transplants moving into the Birmingham, Mobile, Huntsville and Gulfport/Biloxi areas of Alabama and Mississippi. I live in Georgia and there are communities of Mexicans, Asians, etc. here outside of Atlanta.
Good post...I think some people refuse to see the diversity across the South. They think we're all living on plantations or tending the fields down here. The fact is that not much of the stereotypical historical southern culture remains due to progress and modernization - especially in urban areas. We aren't living in the 1800s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 06:36 PM
 
6,611 posts, read 6,933,234 times
Reputation: 4077
Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
Because the northern most parts of the state were the only parts somewhat populated by southerners of European descent during the colonial and antebellum periods, which was when most of what we know as "southern" culture today evolved. The rest of the state was just too tropical to be considered a practical place to live due to heat and the prevalence of insect-borne diseases and diseases that were not killed out by a hard frost that they did not yet have cures for. If you do any research on Florida units in the Civil War, the few that existed were formed in the extreme northern reaches if the state, which probably identifies culturally much more with places like Mobile and Savannah than places like Tampa or Miami.
Tampa was a decent-sized trade port for the Confederacy, even though it was blockaded early in the war. There was actually a Battle of Tampa in 1862.

The rest of South Florida wasn't developed at that time, although there is still a good bit of evidence of southern culture there. It didn't have to exist during the Civil War to be southern.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 08:57 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,125,548 times
Reputation: 5742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Catfish2008 View Post
Yeh, I'm with CookieSkoon, I think this is pretty accurate. I'd make a few slight variations and bump up the percentages on most of 'em as outside of the major cities in most of these states there is an overt Southern culture present:

Alabama = 100%
Mississippi = 100%
South Carolina = 95%
Georgia = 95%
Louisiana = 95%
Tennessee = 95%
North Carolina = 85% (this number will continue to drop most likely due to the Triangle)
Arkansas = 85% (due to less transplantation with the exception of the NW quadrant)
Texas = 80% (transplants/Hispanic culture is moving in, but there are still huge Southern swaths)
Kentucky = 75% (hugs the bottom of the Midwest/Ohio)
Oklahoma = 70% (only due to less transplantation, like Kentucky hugs the bottom of the Midwest/KS)
Virginia = 40% (only due to excessive transplantation)
Florida = 40% (only due to excessive transplantation)
West Virginia = 30% (only due to less transplantation)
Missouri = 20% (the Census has Missouri grouped in the Midwest for the vast majority is Midwestern)
Maryland = 10% (only listed here due to the Census' inclusion)
Delaware = <5% (only listed here due to the Census' inclusion)
I think this is pretty much spot-on, my friend!

About the only thing I would quibble with -- and this is extremely minor -- is to place Alabama just slightly below Mississippi in terms of "most Southern." The reason being that Alabama has a mountainous region in the far northern part that was/is more Appalachian than Old South (there was even some noteable Union sentiment during the WBTS).

Thus, I would have given it a rating of about 97%. But of course, that is just me.

Again, great job, buddy...and also? Hook' em Horns! BWAHAHAHAHA
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 10:28 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,069 posts, read 2,201,513 times
Reputation: 1329
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
Not at all. Also, Florida and Virginia have less of the traditional southern traits than Texas.
False, Florida and Virginia are way more southern than Texas and Oklahoma. Texas and Oklahoma are the least southern of the southern states (if the definition excludes Maryland and Delaware, apparently). Southern characteristics permeate all areas in Florida and Virginia, while Oklahoma and Texas have ENTIRE swaths of land without a SINGLE hint of Southern culture( Pecos Texas, Texas Panhandle, South Texas, Oklahoma Panhandle, etc.) Even the Southern culture in Texas and Oklahoma is diluted compared to that of the Southeastern states, having the Southern culture mixed evenly with Southwestern and/or Mexican culture. In Texas, this mix gives birth to the distinctly Texan culture that can be found especially in the Texas Triangle cities of Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-31-2014, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Appalachian New York, Formerly Louisiana
4,102 posts, read 4,743,366 times
Reputation: 5374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
False, Florida and Virginia are way more southern than Texas and Oklahoma. Texas and Oklahoma are the least southern of the southern states (if the definition excludes Maryland and Delaware, apparently). Southern characteristics permeate all areas in Florida and Virginia, while Oklahoma and Texas have ENTIRE swaths of land without a SINGLE hint of Southern culture( Pecos Texas, Texas Panhandle, South Texas, Oklahoma Panhandle, etc.) Even the Southern culture in Texas and Oklahoma is diluted compared to that of the Southeastern states, having the Southern culture mixed evenly with Southwestern and/or Mexican culture. In Texas, this mix gives birth to the distinctly Texan culture that can be found especially in the Texas Triangle cities of Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, and Austin.
Texas and Oklahoma are southern. That's just the fact of it. I've been into Texas several times, I've also been to Virginia, Texas is far more like the deep south than Virginia.

Yes there are unique elements to the culture, but that does not make it non-southern. If a unique identity within the south makes a state un-southern, then there is no south.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top